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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi, Mr. Perfectionist here. :D



Last night I re-fitted the muffler back onto my Esprit, and I couldn't get the tailpipe centered in the hole in the valence. It's too far to the right. I'm afraid it's going to contact the valence when the drivetrain shakes.

Of course, I can't remember if it was perfectly centered in the past. :facepalm No amount of tweaking the two 17mm mounting bolts brought it into line. :mad:

I even tried moving the mounting plate on the tranny that the muffler mounts to...no joy. :shrug:




(This query ONLY applies to '88s. NOT for later Esprits with the Renault transmission that mounted the muffler to the body, not the transmission. And G-cars didn't have the EBPV)

Anyone with an '88 please tell me how centered your tailpipe is. I forgot to take pictures last night, but I'll post one over the weekend.
 

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My tail pipe extension is slightly diagonal (due to welding it far up the pipe).

But the factory pipe appears to be 100% centered horizontally and a bit high vertically

This is my 88 factory OEM muffler and EBVP assembly:

 

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Atwell, I just went through this on an early G car but the same problem exists on all Citroen trans cars. The muffler is bolted to the rear of the trans and the pipe is solid all the way to the turbo meaning where the engine and trans sits dictates where the pipe exits as its welded on the discharge side of the muffler. As your engine was out did you replace the engine mounts? and did you replace the trans mounts? I did and this resulted in the engine and trans sitting a little more to the passengers side (the right) than when I took it apart (due to the early G cars propensity to shear the drivers side engine mount) I had to go back and loosen the engine and trans mounts, as there is a little play in the bolts holes, and pull the whole assembly to the left, centered the pipe in the valence opening, then tightened it all back up. Only lotus could design it this way :wallbang:

Colin

Hi, Mr. Perfectionist here. :D



Last night I re-fitted the muffler back onto my Esprit, and I couldn't get the tailpipe centered in the hole in the valence. It's too far to the right. I'm afraid it's going to contact the valence when the drivetrain shakes.

Of course, I can't remember if it was perfectly centered in the past. :facepalm No amount of tweaking the two 17mm mounting bolts brought it into line. :mad:

I even tried moving the mounting plate on the tranny that the muffler mounts to...no joy. :shrug:




(This query ONLY applies to '88s. NOT for later Esprits with the Renault transmission that mounted the muffler to the body, not the transmission. And G-cars didn't have the EBPV)

Anyone with an '88 please tell me how centered your tailpipe is. I forgot to take pictures last night, but I'll post one over the weekend.
 

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Laugh if you like, but I have this down to a 5 minute process.

I get it all bolted up, then on my back looking up, I losen the nuts on the gear box backing plate just enough to be able to move the pipe and muffler. I put a level on the muffle and get it centered and tighten it up.

On my 88' this puts the tip nearly perfect in the center of the cut out hole.
 

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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, Colin, Cameron, & Eddie


Yes, my drivetrain was out, mounts were not replaced. After I posted my inquiry I thought of loosening the drivetrain and pushing everything towards the left.

Colin, Do I release the through-bolts, or the smaller mount-fixing bolts?

I guess that means readjusting the shift linkages, but that's a doddle*. As long as I don't have to remove the water pump return hose again, I'm game. :panic: The scars are just beginning to fade...


Good tip about the level, I had intended to adjust it by eye. How do we know (with a Lotus) that the rest of the car is level, BTW????? :rolleyes:



*child's play, cinch, duck soup, piece of cake, pushover, breeze, walkover, picnic, snap - any undertaking that is easy to do.
 
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Thanks, Colin, Cameron, & Eddie


Yes, my drivetrain was out, mounts were not replaced. After I posted my inquiry I thought of loosening the drivetrain and pushing everything towards the left.

Colin, Do I release the through-bolts, or the smaller mount-fixing bolts?

I guess that means readjusting the shift linkages, but that's a doddle*. As long as I don't have to remove the water pump return hose again, I'm game. :panic: The scars are just beginning to fade...


Good tip about the level, I had intended to adjust it by eye. How do we know (with a Lotus) that the rest of the car is level, BTW????? :rolleyes:



*child's play, cinch, duck soup, piece of cake, pushover, breeze, walkover, picnic, snap - any undertaking that is easy to do.
Can you remember when you jacked up the transmission if the mounts both slid in the channel easily? or did you need to lever one or both of them in ? were there any shims? I released the through bolts AND the engine mount plate (on yours its the different turbo mounts but they all have wiggle room, in particular the vertical mount bolt/nut. If its still out then look elsewhere (the later turbo mounts were way better at controlling the shear but its still there) also depending on how far out it is (see 'anal' in the dictionary, but don't look for it on-line rotfl you could put a small spacer behind the RH side of the mount as it attaches to the trans) hopefully your mounts were not subject to the inner sleeve creeping in the mount like mine below.
 

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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
hopefully your mounts were not subject to the inner sleeve creeping in the mount like mine below.
Did you mean to ATTACH a pic?

I would have expected everything to go back the same way (I know, I know) as the parts were tagged and labelled. For sure, they were installed into the same sides as originally. Perhaps we need to rotate the rear mounts 180 degrees?




We removed the entire rubber mounts on the trans, but in the front we only removed the vertical motor mount through-bolts.

I was topside-left when we shoe-horned the drivetrain back in, trying to protect the front bulkhead from the pretty, blue cam belt. So I'm hazy about the fit of the transmission side.

++++++++++++++++++

Got involved in other stuff today so have not visited the car. I'll try moving the trans towards the left, next visit. If that doesn't center the tailpipe, I'll try rotating the fixing tabs 180 in case they are deformed a bit.
 

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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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6,309 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yesterday I tried loosening the trans mounts and prying the trans over, again no joy. :( Couldn't rotate them or move them any significant amount, the rubber bobbins fit into a large hole in the chassis, only a couple mm of wiggle room there.

The rubber inserts in the output shaft housings that Colin pointed out were the same on both sides.

Here's a pic of the offset.

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One side has ~ 1.5 inches to the valence, the other only 0.5 inch.

I'm about ready to enlarge the mounting holes on the trans muffler bracket by a half-inch so that I can shove the muffler to the left. I think that would be easier than loosening the front motor mounts, I would have to remove the shift linkage bell-crank and the heat shields just to do that. :mad:

I can't figure out what I touched that would shift the pipe over so far. :shrug:
 

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Thanks, Colin, Cameron, & Eddie


Yes, my drivetrain was out, mounts were not replaced. After I posted my inquiry I thought of loosening the drivetrain and pushing everything towards the left.

Colin, Do I release the through-bolts, or the smaller mount-fixing bolts?

I guess that means readjusting the shift linkages, but that's a doddle*. As long as I don't have to remove the water pump return hose again, I'm game. :panic: The scars are just beginning to fade...


Good tip about the level, I had intended to adjust it by eye. How do we know (with a Lotus) that the rest of the car is level, BTW????? :rolleyes:



*child's play, cinch, duck soup, piece of cake, pushover, breeze, walkover, picnic, snap - any undertaking that is easy to do.
All lean to the left...LOL. I get the bubble centered with a floor jack. No fooling... Still, it only takes me about 10-15 minutes to level it all up and get it center using this method... :huh:
 

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Atwell,

There are several joints in the exhaust system between the turbo and muffler. If each segment is allowed to hang while being installed and tightened, one after the other from the top end down (turbo end down), then each will tend to hang low and swing right a bit... just because of the geometry of the thing. When you get all the way to the end, the outlet tip will be out of position to the right. And with each joint in the system previously tightened, you won't be able to push the tip back to where you want it.

Loosen everything to where you can wiggle it around. Then center the tip in rear valence opening (wood wedges are helpful), and start tightening muffler mounts and pipe joints from the bottom up through the system. A helper can be very useful, or a couple of well placed floor jacks.

There should be no need to mess with the motor/ tranny mounts.

Good luck,
Tim Engel
 

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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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6,309 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks Tim,

...will tend to hang low and swing right a bit...
Hey, let's not get personal! rotfl




FWIW, My picture was taken with only the muffler bolted on, no other pipes touching it. :( EBPV still off, cat-pipe loosely bolted on the topside only. Still can't get it to center.



My Dremel is all revved up...unless I receive some inspiration. :panic:
 

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Thanks Tim,



Hey, let's not get personal! rotfl




FWIW, My picture was taken with only the muffler bolted on, no other pipes touching it. :( EBPV still off, cat-pipe loosely bolted on the topside only. Still can't get it to center.



My Dremel is all revved up...unless I receive some inspiration. :panic:
Say what! Like Tim I assumed you had it all bolted together and couldn't get it adjusted? Is it a stock muffler or aftermarket? and on the 88's the muffler to bracket can only bolt through the lower holes so is the bracket installed correctly ?
 

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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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6,309 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Say what! Like Tim I assumed you had it all bolted together and couldn't get it adjusted? Is it a stock muffler or aftermarket? and on the 88's the muffler to bracket can only bolt through the lower holes so is the bracket installed correctly ?
Stock Langford muffler with a Lotus part number stamped into the plate. Same as I removed.

The bolt pattern on the trans bracket is trapezoidal in shape so I'm sure it's correct. Lined up with all the holes in the transmission case.

While there are TWO sets of oval-shaped slots for the muffler mounting studs on the bracket, I used the ones with the washer's previous imprint. :D So the muffler is in the same place as before.


And before you ask, the rear cover of the transmission doesn't have any half-inch-wide gaps... :facepalm
 

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Stock Langford muffler with a Lotus part number stamped into the plate. Same as I removed.

The bolt pattern on the trans bracket is trapezoidal in shape so I'm sure it's correct. Lined up with all the holes in the transmission case.

While there are TWO sets of oval-shaped slots for the muffler mounting studs on the bracket, I used the ones with the washer's previous imprint. :D So the muffler is in the same place as before.


And before you ask, the rear cover of the transmission doesn't have any half-inch-wide gaps... :facepalm
Loosen the valence, move it over and you are done rotfl don't know about the later cars but on the early G cars the rear trans mounts could only go in one way so I assume its the same on the 88.
 

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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Move the valence? HMMMmmmm :no:


Or I could fettle the valence hole larger to make everything appear normal. :p
 

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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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6,309 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You know, I haven't installed the chassis cross-brace yet.:eek:

DOES ANYONE THINK THAT COULD CAUSE MY ISSUE?
 

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You know, I haven't installed the chassis cross-brace yet.:eek:

DOES ANYONE THINK THAT COULD CAUSE MY ISSUE?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!::thwack:

No - I think you should use your Dremel FIRST before bolting that on. :evil::evil::evil::evil:
 

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Wingless Wonder
1988 Esprit Turbo
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6,309 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
:thwack::thwack::thwack::thwack:
OK, I'll take that as the answer. I am properly THWACKED.:no:





Had been talking to another Lotus friend and he asked about the brace. That was the D'OH moment.


Didn't think of that 'cause the car is sitting on it's wheels. :facepalm
The brace was going on after the exhaust.

Next Lotus session is next weekend. :UK:
 

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The brace on my car def moves the body out a bit. Makes it way way stiffer. I lose bolt one side, then with a floor jack on the other side, I lower and raise until the unbolted side bolt holes line up perfect. Then I tighten it all up.


Otherwise the bolts can be a real bear... :facepalm

I always do this as part of the replace the gear box step... right before putting the boot floor in place.
 
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