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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If you had a temporary braking failure (TBF or "Ice Mode") where suddenly your brake pedal became "solid" when you apply the brakes, please describe:

Exact conditions under which the incident occurred with a separate description for each time.

Any mods on your car, especially to the braking system

How long since last brake fluid change

Type of brake fluid

Any other important data...

DON'T FORGET YOUR FULL NAME, YEAR AND MODEL OF YOUR LOTUS and
the OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT (LSS, LSD, etc.)

This thread is SERIOUS and will be sent to LOTUS to try to solve this problem!

THANKS! --Hal
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There, it's DONE!

It's called "IMPORTANT: BRAKING FAILURE ISSUE THREAD"

Let's get rolling!

--Hal
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
urk. Oh well, let's use this one. Hopefully, Randy will combine the two threads.
Mike, send your last name, I lost your PM:eek:

ALL: This is important. I'm kind of worn out following this, but I am extremely concerned about it. I've never experienced the brake failure issue while driving, but Carl did when he owned my Elise. Could you imagine losing brakes when you are approaching a busy intersection with babies in strollers in the crosswalk?:eek: Or approaching a hairpin in the mountains with steep cliffs?:eek::eek: Or on the track? :eek::eek::eek:

So even though you have entered into the game, or thread before, please complete the info phase if you had the brake failure issue.

Thanks!

--Hal
 

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Two times that I had enough composure to make sense of whats happening:

1. Pocono Raceway. Happened 3 times. 11k Miles on Car. By the 2nd time I was able to comprehend what was happening. Then it happened to an instructor who was driving my car. All on the same turn.
-Coming onto the straight, in third gear, WOT...Depending on how much speed I carry onto the straight, I may shift into 4th. In 3rd...Approaching turn 6, the hairpin, usually nearing the top of 3rd gear. Braking for the turn, as I blip the throttle, brakes vanish, solid pedal. Pushing harder, I feel a pulse...Off the track, broken splitter. Recap: WOT, to Brakes, blip, solid pedal.

Now if I got off WOT, and coast for a very brief brief moment, then brake& revmatch, The pedal wouldn't go solid.

2. Town back roads, cruising around 50 in 3rd, 35mph Limit roads. 15k miles. Taking it easy driving.This road is newly paved, very smooth, no bumps, no patchwork. After a few part throttle S turns, coasting, dragging 3rd gear, approaching a sharp hair pin. Preparing for the turn, easing onto the brakes...no brakes. Solid pedal, followed by ABS pulse. Indiscernible amount of brake force. Mostly just the coasting in gear was what slowed me down...Coasting up hill, ABS pulsing, car stops, brakes grab. Recap: No WOT, no blip. Dragging 3rd gear. Light braking, resulting in solid pedal.

No Mods. All season tires. Stock Pads.

Happened with new brake fluid, and 10k miles on fluid.

Unsure of fluid type...whatever the dealer used


Grant Barr 06 Exige (lss stock??). Traction Control.
 

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It seems to be an enormous concern on the board lately. People are panicked about it when very few have experienced it, including those holding the pitchforks. (dramatic over dramatization I know). I guess a good idea to document who has had it, and I have seen a couple people here that have, including Randy. I don't think I've ever heard of the approaching intersection scenario, but have heard of it in autocross.

How about a poll to put it perspective? How many people have had the problem? Less than 1%? But new people coming on to the board to learn about the cars are panicked to buy one fearing they will careen into a playground of school children with bodies scattering everywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Grant! That's EXACTLY what we want!
Please continue the thread......

--Hal
 

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As mentioned in a previous thread on this topic, it's not Lotus specific, but does seem related to cars with ABS. Not saying Lotus shouldn't fix it, but rather that the ABS system might be the right place to start looking.
 

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It seems to be an enormous concern on the board lately. People are panicked about it when very few have experienced it, including those holding the pitchforks. (dramatic over dramatization I know). I guess a good idea to document who has had it, and I have seen a couple people here that have, including Randy. I don't think I've ever heard of the approaching intersection scenario, but have heard of it in autocross.

How about a poll to put it perspective? How many people have had the problem? Less than 1%? But new people coming on to the board to learn about the cars are panicked to buy one fearing they will careen into a playground of school children with bodies scattering everywhere.

I think a pole would be a good idea to see how prevalent this issue actually is. This seems like one of those cases where it seems like it is happening to everyone because the people are only going to post about it if it happens to them, you're not going to get a lot of people coming back from a drive and starting a thread titled "My brakes worked fine today".


But this does seem like a very serious problem along with the issue with the bolt on the control arm shearing off and losing control of the car. Not good.
 

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It seems to be an enormous concern on the board lately. People are panicked about it when very few have experienced it, including those holding the pitchforks. (dramatic over dramatization I know). I guess a good idea to document who has had it, and I have seen a couple people here that have, including Randy. I don't think I've ever heard of the approaching intersection scenario, but have heard of it in autocross.

How about a poll to put it perspective? How many people have had the problem? Less than 1%? But new people coming on to the board to learn about the cars are panicked to buy one fearing they will careen into a playground of school children with bodies scattering everywhere.
+2

I find it amazing that the two people that are most concerned and championing the cause don't even know what it is:rolleyes:

If you drive like an ass on the street you might have the same problem that the BMW guys and the Mazda guys have when they drive like an ass on the road:wave:

I am pledging $20 for a new telescope for Hal, who else is in? Come on people lets keep this thing rolling, telescopes are expensive :wallbang::shift:
 

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+2

I find it amazing that the two people that are most concerned and championing the cause don't even know what it is:rolleyes:QUOTE]

Amazing it is.... :crazyeyes
 

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I drove my Lotus today and my brakes worked

Yes I know it is shocking but true:clap:

2006 Exige Track Pack, TC, no LSD, A048s.


Anyone else out there drive drive your Lotus and have your brakes work today?

Please go for a drive and report back ASAP:up:

I may go for a drive tomorrow and I will let you know how that goes too, call me fearless rotfl:shift:
 

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+2

I find it amazing that the two people that are most concerned and championing the cause don't even know what it is:rolleyes:
+3. Get a grip, guys. Drove my car yesterday, and it stopped just fine. :rolleyes:

Please take what I write below with the understanding that I'm not a mechanic, nor am I speaking for Lotus. This is just what I've gathered If anyone feels that what I've written is incorrect, please correct me. In any event, I suggest talking to a qualified Lotus mechanic when evaluating this issue.:

From what I understand, experiencing true "ice mode" (note "") requires braking out of a corner, IMMEDIATELY going WOT, staying WOT long enough to drain the vacuum, before jumping on the brakes again, presumably for a corner on a track (read: experienced track/race driver) and not because you're driving like that on the streets. Again, IF you're skilled enough to experience this problem, call Allen at Lotus of Beverly Hills and inquire about the addition of a vacuum canister. IF you're experiencing this issue on the road, (and not the isue mentioned below) than you may want to save it for the track.

This (again, from what I understand) is different from incorrect suspension setup (too "stiff") and chattering over rifts in the road with the brake pedal on the floor.

Just my .02
 

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Speaking of which, is a vacuum cannister included with all the current supercharger kits?
I remember adding one to one of my cars for this purpose a long time ago when I put a huge roots blower on it.
 

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Here is another angle to think about, and to poll people on, did you use non-factory spec/size tires & wheels, and either way, did you over torque them ( above 77lbs ) or even bother to torque the nuts at all and in the right order? From the Lotus regular (not service) manual:

Use only the correct Lotus
approved wheel bolts tightened to 77 lbf.ft (105 Nm).
NOTICE: Improperly tightened wheel bolts, or dirt on the wheel
to hub mounting face can cause brake pulsation and judder,
and damage the brake discs. To avoid expensive brake repairs,
ensure complete cleanliness on assembly and tighten the wheel
bolts in a diagonal sequence to the correct torque.

Also This :

The control unit of the ABS is set for standard tire size.
If non-standard Tires are fitted, the control unit may mis-
interpret the speed of the car, because of the variant data
it receives from the wheel speed sensors. Fitting non
standard tires would seriously affect the performance of
your ABS.
 

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Here is another angle to think about, and to poll people on, did you use non-factory spec/size tires & wheels, and either way, did you over torque them ( above 77lbs ) or even bother to torque the nuts at all and in the right order? From the Lotus regular (not service) manual:

Use only the correct Lotus
approved wheel bolts tightened to 77 lbf.ft (105 Nm).
NOTICE: Improperly tightened wheel bolts, or dirt on the wheel
to hub mounting face can cause brake pulsation and judder,
and damage the brake discs. To avoid expensive brake repairs,
ensure complete cleanliness on assembly and tighten the wheel
bolts in a diagonal sequence to the correct torque.

Also This :

The control unit of the ABS is set for standard tire size.
If non-standard Tires are fitted, the control unit may mis-
interpret the speed of the car, because of the variant data
it receives from the wheel speed sensors. Fitting non
standard tires would seriously affect the performance of
your ABS.
Nice find!:up:
 

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blah, blah, blah... Save it for the track is great and all but it still does nothing for the problem. I read about ICE MODE on here and had second thoughts about buying a Lotus. So I purchased one anyways, two days after getting my Lotus suprise, suprise, ICE MODE. there was mention of Mazda and BMW guys have similar problem. I drove an M3 two summers ago and spend this past summer driving an M6 no diffrent than how I drive my Lotus and never had my brakes go rock solid.

I think a poll needs to be done to guage how many members are having this issues. I think the numbers are higher than most think.

I have a stock elise, stock pads, stock rims, stock tires. Ice mode scared the **** out of me and it will end up casing serious harm to somebody if not corrected.
 

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blah, blah, blah... Save it for the track is great and all but it still does nothing for the problem. I read about ICE MODE on here and had second thoughts about buying a Lotus. So I purchased one anyways, two days after getting my Lotus suprise, suprise, ICE MODE. there was mention of Mazda and BMW guys have similar problem. I drove an M3 two summers ago and spend this past summer driving an M6 no diffrent than how I drive my Lotus and never had my brakes go rock solid.

I think a poll needs to be done to guage how many members are having this issues. I think the numbers are higher than most think.

I have a stock elise, stock pads, stock rims, stock tires. Ice mode scared the **** out of me and it will end up casing serious harm to somebody if not corrected.
And by "ice mode" you mean....?

Under what circumstances did you experience this?
 

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Yes I know it is shocking but true:clap:

2006 Exige Track Pack, TC, no LSD, A048s.


Anyone else out there drive drive your Lotus and have your brakes work today?

Please go for a drive and report back ASAP:up:

I may go for a drive tomorrow and I will let you know how that goes too, call me fearless rotfl:shift:
This "ice/rock" brake talk doesn't scare me. I went out for a canyon drive today, I kept my door open and my foot slightly above the roadway (just in case of B---- failure).

Well sure enough, I matted the go pedal (it's so fun to go WOT) and came up on a downhill right hander...NO BRAKES...not a problem. I dug my Piloti covered foot into the asphalt and slowed enough to light a smoke as I trailfoot-dragged through the corner. I did notice a bit of ABS (all balls shudder) pulsating however.

Can't wait 'til the next event...care to join in? I'll lead to show you the new technique.
 
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