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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In the past couple years of driving, I've made some manuvers that I found to technically be within the law. Each time, I was fully aware of what I was doing and that I could be wrong about how legal the action was. It probably doesn't come as a surprise that I decided to never do anything that could even risk seeming illegal in the Lotus (aside from not having a front license plate and the occassional short burst of speed:D).

So when I found out a few minutes ago that I had been "caught" on a redlight camera running a red light in the Elise, I was completely shocked. I read over the citation and it provided a picture that looked like I was turning right. Obviously I figured there had to be a mistake and went to the website that supposably had a video of my offense.

Sure enough. There's a video. And I am turning right on red.

Two things stood out that would make me not want to fight this ticket.

1. I had been at a gas station on the left side of the street and had to cross over a solid white line to get into the turning lane. Shouldn't be a big deal, but I could rationalize how a judge might bring it up.

2. I never came to a full stop. I slowed down and then proceeded to turn once I saw there were no cars coming. Keep in mind, however, that the video extended a second or two past my turn and there really was NO traffic.

The citation is $75 and since I've been working all summer, I could just pay it off and let it go. However, money IS money and I don't want to lose a penny over something I don't feel was an offense.

The advice I'm looking for would best be described as odds. What are the odds of winning if I fight the ticket?

I would include the video, but I don't know how to get it off the site.

EDIT: Here are the two pics (aside from my license plate pic) that they had on the site

It should be noted that the white truck in the second pic had his turn signal on and did turn right.
 

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...they have red light cameras in texas now?..mother bloody #*@^...
 

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Since you didn't stop at a red light, I'd say you are guilty regardless of turn on red or traffic etc.
 

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s**t.... it took your photo on a right turn.

I do that all the time at that intersection.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
s**t.... it took your photo on a right turn.

I do that all the time at that intersection.
Completely off topic, but nice, another person from North Mexico. I mean South Texas. :p You haven't seen a mysterious orange Exige around have you? I've heard rumors that there's one around here somewhere.
 

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the only wild lotus I've seen in occupied mexico was a red esprit, on the island.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I sometimes practice for autoX at the warehouses by the airport in B Ville. But aside from that, the only time I'm on the streets is going to Corpus Christi or back, so I haven't been spotted yet.

EDIT: Ok, I'll stop hijacking my own thread. Back to the advice!!!!
 

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Assuming the video shows you NOT coming to a complete stop what is your defense?

Video appears to show you rolling through with a speed of 17 mph, which is far from stopped.

Personally I would not fight it. There is evidence that you broke the law and not just a cop's testimony (which is enough to convict you in most cases anyway) but rather a video of you doing it. Unless it shows you stopping I would pay it and not look back.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Yeah the speed has me confused to be honest. I'm assuming it can't be wrong, but the vid shows me moving slowly.

Anyways, I haven't looked into the actual laws yet, but at Driver's Ed, I was taught that a complete stop is NOT required. I remember this exclusively because I was the kid asking the annoying "what's technically legal?" questions. As I said, I put this up minutes after I got the citation in the mail, so I haven't looked into the legalities yet.

EDIT: Found the law. Unless I can get some rest (the downside of work and school) and come up with a good story, it looks like I'll just pay it.
 

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Just pay it. You will probably look like a tool trying to fight video evidence. I have also never heard that you don't have to stop before turning on a red. What school taught you that nonsense? You always stop on a red no matter what you are doing next. Same with stop signs. Unless you are driving in Brazil or somewhere like that. They only have to stop if other cars are present. That was weird getting used to. Maybe Texas is different but I would be surprised to hear that, especially if they took the time to put up a camera.
 

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Unless you are driving in Brazil or somewhere like that. They only have to stop if other cars are present.
rotfl In Brasil you don't have to stop at all, ever, if you don't want. Hell, you don't even have to stay in your own lane. rotfl Just hand any cop that stops you $5 and you're on your way with a police escort. rotfl My wife grew up thinking that all cops were that way everywhere. Didn't work quite so well when her family moved to the US and Dad tried it in New Orleans :panic:.

You rolled through the red light. That's why you got the ticket. I'm not sure about this camera in particular but there is supposed to be someone reviewing each "offense" to see if it really is an "offense." The camera doesn't really know if you stopped before turning or not. It takes a picture of movement at the red light past a certain point. It is up to the human reviewer to verify the video and have the citation sent. That's why most people don't receive a ticket for turning "right on red after stop," although a few sneak through. The few sneaking through is one reason that you can review your offense online, just in case.

Pay your fine.

Enjoy your car.
 

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It's a revenue generating system/tool. If you fight it and spend less than $75 defending yourself your odds of winning are between 0-0.23% If you spend over $75 and retain a traffic lawyer, your odds increase to about a 3% chance of "winning"
For the fun of fighting it and spending a day or two in court (it usually takes a full day to get the court date so you can come back and waste another day) the judge is likely to increase your fine for taking up his time, as well as court costs, etc which you get to pay whether you win or lose. So if you fight it and the ticket is dismissed, you will still have $75 or so in other fees, costs, etc. If you fight it and lose (about a 99.77% chance) you will pay the original $75, plus however much lesson they feel like teaching you that day about not fighting tickets and how the system really works, in addition to the court costs, etc. No suprise if your $75 ticket easily exceeded $150.

For about 12 cents if you were a good shot with a .22 you should be able to solve a whole lot of peoples problems. Especially in Texas. Wish more people would make a target out of those stupid things.
 

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The video is actually hard evidence that you did nothing dangerous. Sure you did not fully stop (we call that a California stop, not sure why), but no one was coming. You saved some fuel.

In North Carolina such revenue driven shenanigan's are not done because the state constitution requires the revenues go to the school system, leaving no payoff for the evil greedy underhanded scavenger people.

I agree with SweetDaddy:

"For about 12 cents if you were a good shot with a .22 you should be able to solve a whole lot of peoples problems. Especially in Texas. Wish more people would make a target out of those stupid things."
 

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The video is actually hard evidence that you did nothing dangerous. Sure you did not fully stop (we call that a California stop, not sure why), but no one was coming. You saved some fuel.
Maybe not dangerous in this situation, but still illegal. The ticket is for breaking the law, not for being dangerous. If we got tickets for being dangerous then almost every SUV driving cell phone toting soccer mom would be getting multiple tickets per day while sipping on their mocha looking at the kids in the back of the car while going through the intersection.

In following your logic, as long as no one is coming the opposite direction, I can cross the double yellow center line while driving and that should be ok. You know, because no one is coming. Now take an in-car camera system video to court to prove no one was coming and what you've just proven is you broke the law. The video proves he broke the law, which this time just happened to be not dangerous -- luckily. Bottom line is the law states right turn on red after stop. He didn't stop. Pay the ticket and move on, but next time stop first ;).
 

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Maybe not dangerous in this situation, but still illegal. The ticket is for breaking the law, not for being dangerous. If we got tickets for being dangerous then almost every SUV driving cell phone toting soccer mom would be getting multiple tickets per day while sipping on their mocha looking at the kids in the back of the car while going through the intersection.

In following your logic, as long as no one is coming the opposite direction, I can cross the double yellow center line while driving and that should be ok. You know, because no one is coming. Now take an in-car camera system video to court to prove no one was coming and what you've just proven is you broke the law. The video proves he broke the law, which this time just happened to be not dangerous -- luckily. Bottom line is the law states right turn on red after stop. He didn't stop. Pay the ticket and move on, but next time stop first ;).
You are technically quite correct. My contention is that human judgment is more valuable than law. Having a thinking peace officer present is reasonable, a mindless machine is not able to consider the special circumstances that accompany most all real life situations. No harm no foul.

I cross the double center line a lot, take yellow lights late, occasionally accelerate faster than some might think safe, merge a bit close, etc, It's part of practical driving.

You are right, unsafe behaviour can be hard to legislate, the cellphone stuff being a great example. I have a hands free telephone, as my judgment tells me it is safer. Maybe I should have waited until it was law?

I had rather be on the road, or especially the track, next to someone with judgment than someone focused on following thr letter of a rule. Makes life more real too.
 

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My contention is that human judgment is more valuable than law. Having a thinking peace officer present is reasonable, a mindless machine is not able to consider the special circumstances that accompany most all real life situations.
That is exactly why there is supposed to be a human reviewing each video/picture series that the red light camera takes.
 

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I cross the double center line a lot, take yellow lights late, occasionally accelerate faster than some might think safe, merge a bit close, etc, It's part of practical driving.

You are right, unsafe behaviour can be hard to legislate, the cellphone stuff being a great example. I have a hands free telephone, as my judgment tells me it is safer. Maybe I should have waited until it was law?

Your judgement may tell you it's safer, but more and more research is indicating it is no safer, and in some ways may be LESS safe than a hand held.

I gotta go back to my driver's ed book to see about that 'yellow light means floor it' rule.
 

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pay up, not much else you can do.
 
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