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Integrator
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My car is 1988 Federal Turbo,Bosch CIS with R12 Freon AC.
PO disconnected the hoses when he pulled out the lump, but did not bother to make it work again. Let's assume "condition unknown" of the system.

Does anyone have original X-refference PN# -s for the system components?
What should I replace/fix/do to make it working again?

P.S. I have chagring manifold/hoses/gauges; no vacuum pump, though.
 

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First step would be to try to hook the system up again and pressure test for leaks. Use new "O" rings. Pressurize to at least 100 psi preferably with Nitrogen and use bubble water on all of the connections. Once you are sure it is pressure-tight replace the dryer, the service valve cores, and the oil in the compressor. Pressure test again and then vacuum to at least 700 microns for at least an hour. Fill with -12. Tension the belt. Performance test the A/C. Make sure the evap drain is not plugged up.
David Teitelbaum
 

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I have had good luck with Action AC, they were able to X-reference parts for a 91 Alfa Romeo and an 86 Peugeot with correct dryer, trinary switch and R12 expansion valve, seals ect. Very friendly and helpful on the phone as my cars were not listed in there finder. good part is you already have R12. Retail Automotive Air Conditioning(A/C) Parts and Accessories
Mike
 

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That R-12 is gold. And illegal if you aren't licensed. You could sell it for close to $100/lb and maybe use the money to buy a whole new system that doesn't use R-12.
 

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Integrator
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Discussion Starter #6
Phil,
Are you a lawyer?
Well...
R12 is NOT ILLEGAL, and never been!

It is sold and bought on the open market.
The only thing which IS illegal, is releasing R12 to the earth atmosphere, therefore one needs to be licenced and have appropriate equipment to handle it.
 

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Phil,
Are you a lawyer?
Well...
R12 is NOT ILLEGAL, and never been!

It is sold and bought on the open market.
The only thing which IS illegal, is releasing R12 to the earth atmosphere, therefore one needs to be licenced and have appropriate equipment to handle it.
Don't get your panties in a bunch. You don't have to be a lawyer to know some basic laws. It's illegal to buy and use if your are not licensed. I know because my dad went through the process to get licensed so he can buy and use it. You really think any Joe can walk up to the open market and buy it?

"Federal law prohibits the sale of R12 and R134 automotive refrigerants to "noncertified" individuals (to become certified, you must pass a written test approved by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) -- something which all professional A/C technicians must do before they can legally work on your vehicle). This rule has been in effect since November 1992. "

Even if you are licensed, finding R-12 for sale is becoming extremely difficult.

Back to the real point of my post: I was just trying to offer you some alternatives to consider. Almost everyone wants to get their A/C systems away from R-12.
 

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R-12 is being bought and sold all the time. Look it up on E-Bay. You are supposed to be certified but who's checking. Certification can be done over the Internet if you want to be legal about it. As long as you can get -12 you should use it in the systems that were originally designed for it. If you do convert to -134 you will lose at least 10% of your cooling capacity. It may not sound like much until you are in 100 degree heat, sitting in traffic on a sunny day. To properly convert you also have to change every seal, all of the hoses, the dryer, replace the service fittings, and drain and refill the compressor with the right type of oil for -134. You are also supposed to place a sticker indicating the correct fill in weight and that it is a converted system with -134. If you don't want to spend the $$ for -12 and you don't want to go through the trouble of converting there are "drop-in" replacements for -12. They are called blended refrigerants and have their own issues. I like R-141b. Be sure NEVER to use anything containing Propane. It works great as a refrigerant but someday you may be Lotus Flambe!
David Teitelbaum
 

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Yes, definitely replace the expansion valve and drier.
Cross reference for the txv valve should be
4 seasons 38604
1977-83 BMW 320
NAPA 207587

Not sure which drier you have but just take it into a NAPA and they should be able to find one for you. As long as the connections are right and it fits, it will work. There is nothing special about the drier, it's basically just a filter.
 

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I mentioned E-Bay only because it is a quick, easy way to look at things for sale. If you go to any large auto show with a lot of venders (an autojumble) you will see a few selling R-12 also and usually for less than on E-Bay. And you can save the shipping . You will need a can tapper too. Those you can also buy at the shows or you can find them on E-Bay too. You only need 3-4 small cans of the stuff and the small cans require a can tapper. If you buy a large can they have a valve on them but you will be buying a LOT more than you need (for 1 car anyway!). At some shows they are a lot more interested in collecting sales tax then bothering to see your certification! On the plus side they usually will negotiate the price.
David Teitelbaum
 

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My 88 Esprit had its AC reworked again recently.

Back in January 2012, it was recharged with R134 (previous owner had it converted). In May 2012, the relief valve vented ALL of the R134 out for some reason - my guess the hot Napa,CA drive (high 90s) raised the PSi and the valve blew and stuck open. My mechanic flushed, vacuum-tested for leaks, tested the relief valve (and readjusted higher - it's a mechanic device with a screw adjustment) and recharged/re-oiled with R134.

If I have my choice, I would have stuck with R12 - it is available through licensed folks; downside is the cost/lbs is high. Since the system was designed for R12, makes sense to keep it if R12 is available.

FYI the receiver/dryer should be replaced - they say it's like an oil filter for an AC system. A 24 year old one is suppose to be 'bad' but I have a 91 Mustang with an original dryer and no problems.

If you go with R134 and don't decide to replace the hoses, you should at least replace the O-rings with R134-compatible ones.
 
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