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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Discussion Starter #1
Behold the power of a 2zz with a Garrett GT30 series turbo, and a stroker kit:

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=263223

Back to the dyno today with a new RPS 4-puck organic disc. I got it form MWR and its the same one they used in their red celica. We got 446whp on 91 octane and only 502whp on 109. I maxed out the wastegate spring. :faint: 21psi is all we could get out of the 5psi spring. The good news is the pump gas numbers went up 36whp and the clutch held the power no problem. I also tune my AVC-R so that 1st gear is 270whp 2nd gear is 315whp 3rd gear is 380whp and 4th, 5th and 6th are 446whp. A lot easier to keep the tires from burning up. I am planning on changing the wastegate spring to a 15psi spring and aiming for 27psi and finnally spraying some nitrous next time. Shawn Church thinks it will be at 560-570whp with no nitrous. Hopefully :)

here's a couple of 500whp runs

I know you guys don't care for 500 whp for your roadsters, so why am I posting this?

1) I'm glad to see the "2zz is a weak a$$ engine" line isn't around here anymore. Hopefully, posts like these keep them away
2) The benefits of running the stroker.
3) 200-300+ whp is CAKE for the 2zz now, which is more than enough power you guys could ever want.
4) GREAT engine builds can be had if brought to the right people (Smaay, Boosted 2.0, lilrocket, forcedfed, Church Automotive Tuning, etc), and be given the right parts.

I honestly expected you Lotus guys to be running more stroker builds than us...especially with the supercharger builds :confused: ...what's the deal? Not enough programmable ECU options? Not affordable enough?
 

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The same rev limit?

I have a few questions.

What piston/rod/crank combo?

What cams?

A/f ratio?

Next turbo... GT42R :p
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
That motor should last a good week.
MWR is pushing 700+ hp on their drag GTS on an unsleeved open deck with just Mahle low compression 9:1 drop in pistons. This guy has sleeves on his built block, and is running less power on even lower compression pistons. Why would people build and tune blocks that are just going to blow? For the record, I don't think any of the top 10 high powered 2zz's have blown yet.

The same rev limit?

I have a few questions.

What piston/rod/crank combo?

What cams?

A/f ratio?

Next turbo... GT42R :p
He said his rev limit is set to 8,500 rpm somewhere...which isn't safe at all for the stroker since that's approaching F1 rpm speeds. 8,400 rpm should be the set max rpm tops for the stroker. Smaay shifts his 550 whp stroker setup under that.

See the link for his mods list and pics: http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269206

Hey Guys :wave: I've never put my car on the Reader Ride section before, but Ive been a nc.org guy since the beginning. I was a creeper for the first three years. I didnt bother even responding to any threads for the first threes years due to the fact that this site is setup for people so they don't have to ask stupid questions :thumbup:. Somehow this still happens. I bought my car New in April 6th 2000 in Madison, WI. At that time there was hardley any parts for the car. I pretty much bought everything that was available. I moved to San Diego in August 2003 and became a member of the SoCal newcelica group :bowdown:. In May my car went for major modifications from Wetworks Garage, J&G Customs, and of course Smaay, and just got her back last week :faint: here she is;

2000 Toyota Celica GT-S

ENGINE
Engine Code
: 2ZZ-GE
Type: 1796cc in-line four, DOHC, aluminum block and head, VVTL-i
Internal Modifications: Stroked to 1.94 liters, ARP head and main studs, crank bearings, Piper stage 2 camshafts, Crower connection rods, Wiseco forged aluminum pistons (8:8:1), Darton Sleeves, MWR Stainless Steel Valves, MWR valve springs
External Modifications: Garrett GT30R turbo, Tial 44mm wastegate, Tial bov, Smaay manifold & downpipe, MWR intercooler 31X12X3, TRD exhaust with electronic cutout, Moroso Oil Pan, Pivot ground wire system, AEM alternator pulley, NOS kit 50 shot with intercooler sprayer
Engine Management Modifications: 750cc RC injectors, MWR fuel pump 255lph, Smaay return fuel system, Apexi power full computer, Datalogit, Apexi AVC-R, AEM wideband, STI maf

DRIVETRAIN
Layout
: Transverse front engine, front-wheel drive
Drivetrain Modifications: RPS Max/Street clutch, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, TRD limited-slip differential
Not sure about A/F, nobody ever asked. And based on the first post, he has since changed his clutch to handle more power, which is the one MWR used on their old 400+ whp daily driven GTS that just got sold for only $15,000.

GTs,

Do you know of any experienced 2ZZ turbo tuners in Houston?

Thanks.
Contact Boosted2.0. He's the guy doing the head porting, the custom intake manifold, the stock header porting, and putting together sleepless's ultimate NA build, and badceli's turbo'd 2zz swapped MR2-Spyder build. The only place better than Houston for 2zz expertise is MWR in Detroit, Michigan.
 

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That motor should last a good week.
Not really.

With forged internals that motor will last as long as you maintain it.

C/W rod/piston combos are super popular. Not the strongest, but just fine. With a better combo and bigger turbo it could easily put down more. The limiting factor would be traction lol.
 

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He said his rev limit is set to 8,500 rpm somewhere...which isn't safe at all for the stroker since that's approaching F1 rpm speeds.
What??????

What kind of math are you using?

"F1 rpm speeds"

That doesn't even make sense... revolutions per minute is not a "speed"

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
The math is there to be figured out. You know...the math that can allow you to figure out the speed of a piston going from top dead center to bottom dead center based on rpms and what not. If you don't believe me...take it from this guy replying to a stroked NA 2zz build that's in the works (I guess the owner of this 500+ whp beast revs to 8800 rpm... :crazyeyes ):

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=273079

my stroaker revs to 8800rpm :rolleyes:
Your pistons speeds are up to par with F1 engines... I suggest you lower it to 8400rpm at the most and gain some reliability.

Ever wonder why MWR do not stroke there personal 2zz's? ... they rev high to extract more power, bad idea with the stroker.
It's not like Redliner9k works at a race shop in Puerto Rico with a dyno, came up with the Celica GTS, Celica GT, AND the Lotus PPE 4-1 Race Header specs, along with tuning a handful of 185+ whp NA 2zz's and 300+ whp turbo'd 2zz's...

You = fail. The information is out there to be read man. It would be wise for you and others to know what the motor in your car is all about...even if the info is on the lowly Celica sites that plump down more money on average for engine builds than you guys...
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Discussion Starter #13

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You = fail. The information is out there to be read man. It would be wise for you and others to know what the motor in your car is all about...even if the info is on the lowly Celica sites that plump down more money on average for engine builds than you guys...
That is because we don't need dyno bragging rights. 500hp fwd sounds like running a foot race with one leg to me. That kind of power would put an Elise sideways in a ditch and improve nothing. Fwiw, I personally helped build a 500hp 2.0l 4 cylinder fwd car 8 years ago. It was as stupid then as it is now. That car, while I spent a lot on suspension and brakes and everything else, was mostly just good at spinning the front tires.

It really is not that big of a deal for any motor to make that much power anymore. GM has a book on how to build a 800hp ecotec. Woo hoo.

Let me know when one of these monster motor cars pulls lap times at willow springs equal to a lowly stock motor celica like the ones they use at the racing schools there.

If you want a 500hp car, find one with the proper platform that can manage it. Hint - it is not fwd or short wheelbase.
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Discussion Starter #16
What about a turbo build that will boost the biggest Garrett GT28 series turbo to 15+ psi, see 300-400 whp, AND still have at least a 3,000 rpm spool engagement for a track vehicle?

Badceli's Turbo'd 2zz Swapped MR2-Spyder Build: http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251118

The guys that run stock blocks here won't be able to touch him on the track, and everything about the build that Boosted2.0/Lilrocket will be doing will cost him less than a new Exige S. It would be cool to see these builds on Lotus vehicles. We all know the stock block can't handle more than 10 psi of boost.
 

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The math is there to be figured out. You know...the math that can allow you to figure out the speed of a piston going from top dead center to bottom dead center based on rpms and what not. If you don't believe me...take it from this guy replying to a stroked NA 2zz build that's in the works (I guess the owner of this 500+ whp beast revs to 8800 rpm... :crazyeyes ):
So, assuming the stock 1.8L 2ZZ engine has a stroke of 85.0mm, and a 1.94L has a stroke of 91.6mm, at 8,500 RPM the average linear speed of the piston is ~26m/sec (91.6 mm * 2 * 8500 / 60)

Assuming a 2.4L F1 engine has a stroke of 45.0mm, at 19,000 RPM the average linear speed of the piston is ~28.5m/sec.

That's in the same average linear speed ballpark, but says very little about the forces (which are proportional to acceleration, not speed) on the connecting rods, crank, or wrist pins, which is what really counts. At over twice the RPM, all that mass has to change direction more than twice as often, hence, more than twice the force on the components.

You + physics = fail
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Discussion Starter #18
That's in the same average linear speed ballpark
You just admitted I was right. Am I missing something here?

Obviously there's more force involved with F1 engines. I'm not that stupid.

From now on, I'm going to call you AWESOMO



Congrats AWESOMO.
 

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You just admitted I was right. Am I missing something here?

Obviously there's more force involved with F1 engines. I'm not that stupid.
Then what's the point of comparing linear speeds if it has no bearing on engine reliability/performance/durability etc.?

Maybe you think we're that stupid. You thought wrong...

Frankly, I find your posts full of mostly useless information... and plenty of thinly veiled advertisements... that was what I was pointing out.
 

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00 MRS - 2ZZ NA
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Discussion Starter #20
Then what's the point of comparing linear speeds if it has no bearing on engine reliability/performance/durability etc.?
No effect on load, huh? If you say so AWESOMO. I'm such an idiot to think load is directly related to engine rpm...thus the engine speed of the pistons...which is HALF the amount in the 2zz than in a F1 car...thus distributing more load to less cylinders...

You know what...go do a NA or a supercharged version of his build with more low-midranged torque for your roadster, and lets see how your engine fairs bouncing off the rev limiter and stuff while you take turns and exit corners at a track at 8,800 rpm on 1.94 liters of displacement. rotfl
 
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