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After speaking with Lotus USA today, I can echo others comments here. Don't expect LSD anytime soon, if ever. It is currently slower around the track and it won't be put in until it is faster.
 

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This has been hashed and rehased.

All I can say is that I hope lotus will test a car for AUTOCROSS because 99% of us who want the factory LSD option are AUTOCROSSERS and plan on using the car for AUTOCROSSING and not as much if ever roadrace.


So Hethel, if you're reading this....

Close the gate to Croft for the time being. Find a nice parking lot, BREAK OUT THE PYLONS/CONES ( or whatever you call the tall orange pointy things used for traffic direction in England), BRING RANDY CHASE AND I OVER THERE, and LETS HASH THIS OUT! :D



Options Options Options. :)
 

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Let's try it on grippy concrete with slick Hoosiers. Where I can lift the front tire off the ground.



THAT is what unweights the inside rear wheel... and THAT is slow when the inside rear wheel is spinning and burning rubber.
 

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Valid points about autocrossing, but c'mon, how many Elise owners will be buying their cars for that? Tough to imagine this becoming a factory option if it won't improve the performance of the car for most people. Of course, on the other hand, if it costs them nothing to make this an option, why not do so...?
 

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Matt,

You will see quite a few Elises running autox events. Maybe not a majority, but more than you would expect. And an LSD will benefit all who do. Anyhow, it is an option - Lotus can recommend no LSD for those whom want to run the car on the track in any case.

As Jenn says, 99% of the autocrossers want this option. I for one will probably wait until it is available from the factory - it will be worth the wait. I do not care if it is faster on the track - that is irrelevant to the use I will have for the car.

Steve
 

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Agreed. A lot of people I know intend on autocrossing the Elise and a lot of the interest I get about the Elise is from autocrossers.

The thing to me is this. Having LSD will NOT hurt the car's ability to do the occasional track day. Not having LSD will hurt the car's ability to compete nationally in SCCA SOLO2.

An option provides the best of both worlds.

A factory option for the 2005 model year. As I have said, it can be $20,000 to install, I don't care. As long as I can buy it and install it myself. :) But it has to be an option from the factory in order for that installation to be legal. Not a dealer installed option.

And those that don't care to compete against the Z-06s on the autocross courses, do not have to install the LSD.

HETHEL!!! I AM ONLY ASKING FOR PAPERWORK. JUST PAPER. PER SCCA RULES, THE FACTORY HAS TO ALLOW THE INSTALLATION AS A FACTORY OPTION I COULD HAVE BOUGHT. Put the ability to buy it as an option SOME WHERE in the ordering process, once you have selected the right Torsen LSD. Thanks for reading.
 

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>>"...how many Elise owners will be buying their cars for that?"

I'm buying my car primarily for autocrossing.

All of this talk about "faster 'round the racetrack", if true, indicates that they have tunnel vision at Lotus. (And I can't believe that they are not more open minded...)

Thomas
 

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Randy Chase said:
The thing to me is this. Having LSD will NOT hurt the car's ability to do the occasional track day. Not having LSD will hurt the car's ability to compete nationally in SCCA SOLO2.
I totally agree - 95% of the miles will be on the street, 4% on the track and 1% autocrossing... but it's THAT 1% that will make the difference in Topeka in September (45 minutes away from me BTW ;) )...
 

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I have been saying that Lotus did not see autocrossing as the very large/popular sport that it is in the USA. It's not the same in the UK. One of our intents has been to convince Hethel that autocross exists and it is important.

60,000+ people actively autocross in the USA. Many of them very seriously. Over 1200 of them drive to the middle of USA in Kansas to compete once a year and decide the champions. Many car and tire companies have supported autocrossing with money and advertising references.

Want racing visibility? Support autocrossers. In fact, if Lotus would consider contingency things and support like Toyota, Mazda, Honda, Chrysler does... that would be great. Reduced part prices for example. I pay less than wholesale from Toyota for ANY Toyota part. Toyota pays me a check if I win. An incentive. Why does Toyota do that? They don't need to.

It would be good for Lotus to listen to, and support those seriously involved in this sport. Some of us spend a lot of money and travel all around the USA doing this. I am still not convinced that the Elise can be a car that can win nationally. We shall see. An LSD would help.
 

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Randy Chase said:
Agreed. A lot of people I know intend on autocrossing the Elise and a lot of the interest I get about the Elise is from autocrossers.

The thing to me is this. Having LSD will NOT hurt the car's ability to do the occasional track day. Not having LSD will hurt the car's ability to compete nationally in SCCA SOLO2.

An option provides the best of both worlds.

A factory option for the 2005 model year. As I have said, it can be $20,000 to install, I don't care. As long as I can buy it and install it myself. :) But it has to be an option from the factory in order for that installation to be legal. Not a dealer installed option.

And those that don't care to compete against the Z-06s on the autocross courses, do not have to install the LSD.

HETHEL!!! I AM ONLY ASKING FOR PAPERWORK. JUST PAPER. PER SCCA RULES, THE FACTORY HAS TO ALLOW THE INSTALLATION AS A FACTORY OPTION I COULD HAVE BOUGHT. Put the ability to buy it as an option SOME WHERE in the ordering process, once you have selected the right Torsen LSD. Thanks for reading.
Interesting, when I mentioned several weeks ago that my dealer said LSD would not be an option this year and likely not at all you said that you had inside information that it would be and that my dealer was incorrect. You don’t sound very sure about that anymore.

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2154&perpage=20&highlight=Pittsburgh%20LSD&pagenumber=3

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2154&perpage=20&highlight=Pittsburgh%20LSD&pagenumber=4
 

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Derek, what did I type that makes you think I have changed my understanding?

Your dealer is still incorrect and less informed than my sources. I can't say why I know this.

My post was in reply to the idea that many people have no intention of autocrossing the Elise. That the LSD would help the Elise in autocross. And to point out that the LSD must be a factory option. Not a dealer installed option that has been rumored.

Can Lotus screw this up by thinking they can offer us a dealer option and they think everyone will be happy? That would be a very big yes. I am trying to point out that this will not work.

But I did not say anywhere that Lotus does not intend on offering an LSD as an option this year. That is not a question in my mind.
 

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Derek,
Sincer we're posting links, here's one:

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2289&highlight=tony+shute

Tony RECONFIRMED LSD to me a few weeks ago. It's in the works but no confirm as to when it will happen as yet. Obviously they've got a lot on their plate right now just getting the cars here.

Personally, I could care less about LSD as I have no need for it, but WOULD like to see those who want it for autocrossing to have the option, it can't do anything but increase Lotus presence and brand recognition here.

CHris
 

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I must have misunderstood the context in which you typed your statement. It sounded like a plea to Lotus, but I guess it was meant to be informative so that Lotus understands the option must be offered as a factory install.

I would like to see more clarification on the options that are available and prices.
 

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I would be happy to be one of Lotus' test guinea pigs for LSD in this country - I don't do track days and my sole competitive intent with this car is autocrossing - as I am sure many other owners are too. I would be happy to be the one factory ordered LSD (when my time comes) to open the door for those who really want it. I can understand Lotus' reluctance - if induces "unsafe" characteristics on the track it could have much more disastrous results than what no LSD has in autox. Product liability is a serious matter. Trying to make it faster for the track may be asking too much for the initial development - I am happy to have a slower track setup for the payoff on the autox.

Maybe Lotus would at least consider a limited factory order release to "test the water"?

Steve
 

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I keep thinking about someone I know that auto-crosses a Europa. When he got it, the Dreaded Previous Owner (DPO) had added an LSD, and it made it almost impossible to auto-cross the car - the mid-engined Europa tended to understeer uncontrollably. After removing the LSD, the Europa makes a great auto-crosser.

I keep wondering if the same might be true for the Elise. Light front end with a LSD in the rear might tend to understeer on tight slow corners...

Just food for thought...

My Elise will not have the LSD in any case - it's in the first orders...

My '72 Elan doesn't have an LAD, and never needed one.

My Miata does have a Torsen however... and I like it...

Tim Mullen
 

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TimMullen said:
I keep thinking about someone I know that auto-crosses a Europa. When he got it, the Dreaded Previous Owner (DPO) had added an LSD, and it made it almost impossible to auto-cross the car - the mid-engined Europa tended to understeer uncontrollably. After removing the LSD, the Europa makes a great auto-crosser.
Tim, what type of LSD was it? I heard a similar story about a old British car (I think it was an Elan), but the differential in question was a locker. That's the kind that locks the axles together when it senses slip. Did that cause understeer? DUH! It also caused pieces to snap because of the abrupt on-off action.

But Torsens are used in a wide variety of cars without causing horrible (or even noticable) understeer...and rather than making a car un-autocrossable, they improve the handling (making power oversteer more progressive and controllable).
 

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John Stimson said:
Tim, what type of LSD was it?).
I have no idea - I suspect it was a clutch pack type.

Like I said, food for thought.

I do understand the advantages of a Torsen - that's what my R package Miata has and I do like it - a lot. But it does add to the understeer when I'm really using it and it is very controllable with the throttle...

How much a Torsen would affect the Elise? I have no idea...
Like I said, food for thought.

Tim Mullen
 

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Patience (or patients).....

Do not doubt Tony and Nick at Lotus....If they said they would make it happen they will.

A number of us are counting on them to pull through. They will.

Your dealers do not know as much as you do because Lotus will not tell them until its offical. They can only say NO or not at this moment in time.

Randys original post is still good.
Hang in there.....

I think we all will be installing them in are garages after they do the paper work and build one car with it. ( I just hope its mine. hehehhehe)
 

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TimMullen said:
I keep thinking about someone I know that auto-crosses a Europa. When he got it, the Dreaded Previous Owner (DPO) had added an LSD, and it made it almost impossible to auto-cross the car - the mid-engined Europa tended to understeer uncontrollably. After removing the LSD, the Europa makes a great auto-crosser.

The quaife is essential to the good autocross
handling characteristics of my E mod Europa.
I wouldn't want to be without it.


dan w
 

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Torsen

I've been reading about the Torsen LSD for years and it does NOT perform like the old fashioned 'locker' type or current clutch types. Most impressive to me was a Road & Track test fifteen or twenty years ago (if my memory's not failed me again) where they compared a couple Datsun Z cars, one with Torsen and the other with no lsd or clutch type (memory failed there). They reported that with the Torsen unit, the car could be floored with the front wheels at maximum lock and the car virtually pivoted around its inside front tire. It obviously doesn't perform anything like locker or clutch type LSD's.
 
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