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Interesting, entertaining, and honest. If you want insulated polish, buy German. If you want a car that connects you to the road, buy a Lotus.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think brand reliability is probably the biggest issue. There are so few dealerships for service compared to Porsche for example. That uncertainty and fear drives a lot of people away.
 

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I think brand reliability is probably the biggest issue. There are so few dealerships for service compared to Porsche for example. That uncertainty and fear drives a lot of people away.
I disagree.
The issue is that's it's dramatically overpriced for what you get (and I'm a huge fan). It's basically a kit car, basic parts, a Camry engine, $200 aftermarket radio, no option seats (which I prefer), for $100k.
That's why they don't sell.
It's a $59,900 car and even being exclusive that's where it should be.
Lotus should move to an NA LS3 at $65k and they'd have a very compelling sports car on their hands, and sell 10x more.

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I disagree.
The issue is that's it's dramatically overpriced for what you get (and I'm a huge fan). It's basically a kit car, basic parts, a Camry engine, $200 aftermarket radio, no option seats (which I prefer), for $100k.
That's why they don't sell.
It's a $59,900 car and even being exclusive that's where it should be.
Lotus should move to an NA LS3 at $65k and they'd have a very compelling sports car on their hands, and sell 10x more.

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Horrible take.
 

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Horrible take.
We are all welcome to our opinions. However they certainly don't sell and it's not because they aren't great cars.
I showed the Evora GT to a car fanatic buddy and he said something like: 'cool car but I don't see how anyone would spend $100k on that. I don't see that as a $100k car. '
I feel the same way. Once you consider build quality, integration, resale, service, etc any Porsche in that price range is just a much better value.
That said, I'll likely buy a used Evora as my next sports car. But not because of the value!

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I agree that the current sticker is way too high. I also think Porsche has gotten insane as well. They just have a stronger brand to carry it for now but the 718 and the 992 are insanely expensive for what they are in my opinion. Once you option them you're looking at $80k for a turbo flat 4 or $130k+ for a 911 S. It's just getting bonkers.

I feel like the market speaks on this one for Lotus and the car should sticker around $75k-$80k. That is the range in which dealers seem to be able to unload them and I think it's appropriate for the total package. I think the $60k number thrown out is way too low for the performance, design, and driving experience. Build quality isn't exceptional but it's not bad either. Most people I let sit in my 400 think it's really nice inside and my buddy who is a Porsche fanatic and owns a 2014 Cayman S said he thought the interior was nicer than his Cayman sans radio.

I just got back from Sebring and after 3.5 hours on track the car didn't complain once. I was really beating on it too. I gave two ride a longs and both passengers had similar comments. The suspension is magic. It's incredibly capable and balanced yet somehow supremely comfortable. This is on Sebring too. The track is far from smooth. It's really an amazing car and is definitely greater than the sum of its parts. A Camry engine has never sounded so good.
 

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I disagree.
The issue is that's it's dramatically overpriced for what you get (and I'm a huge fan). It's basically a kit car, basic parts, a Camry engine, $200 aftermarket radio, no option seats (which I prefer), for $100k.
That's why they don't sell.
It's a $59,900 car and even being exclusive that's where it should be.
Lotus should move to an NA LS3 at $65k and they'd have a very compelling sports car on their hands, and sell 10x more.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
Big OOF

It's not that overpriced relative to the market. It's just overpriced relative to the previous Lotus. The car is 93k in base form with 10k carbon package options, aligned with pricing on just about all of the cars in the market. It might be short on power but, as soon as people stop comparing spec sheets its plenty fast for everyday use and track duty.

A 911s is 130k+ car, I don't sip Porsche kool-aid but I'm still trying to understand how that is acceptable but the Lotus at 100k isn't and don't bring up **** that doesn't improve the car being a sports car like silly touch and feel materials and an infotainment system that will be dated in about 2 years.

An optioned Vette is over 100k and it has 485 hp
The Cayman GT4 is arguably the closest competitor and it has the same performance from a company with DEEP pockets at the same price point.

I've sat in a McLaren 12c and 650s and I'm still trying to see where that interior blew my lotus away.

The dealership network is killing this brand.
 

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Ever since something like the whale tail turbo Porsches of the '80s they've been priced beyond their value proposition. Ferraris have been over their value curve since the early '70s. This doesn't keep people from buying them, of course, because there are lots of reasons to buy a car beyond a value proposition based on performance/dollar spent.

That said, I think the biggest problem is that people associate comfort (which means isolation as much as it does actual comfort) with value as much as they do measurable perfomance and so we end up with 'performance' cars carrying hundreds of pounds of cushiness and active experience management hardware around with them unless you buy the track prepped model.

The fact of the matter is that more than a basic level of comfort insulates you from the driving experience - it makes you more of a passenger and less of a participant. If it were not so, Le Mans cars would come with six way power heated and cooled leather seats. News flash: they don't. Comfort/insulation versus performance and experience comes on a scale with something like a Rolls Royce saloon on one end of the axis, and a race prepped 427 Cobra on the other.

I would argue that Lotus's biggest problem (beyond poor dealership support and a shallow supply chain) is that they aren't doing an effective job of informing the buying public what you do get when you don't get the mushy, cushy, computer managed and controlled, insulating high zoot GT car experience. As GM decided 20+ years ago in the design of the C5 Corvette, weight savings and performance have a dollar value just as economizing on parts cost by raiding the bin does. The current cushy, plump 991 Carrera is a fine GT car - excellent for touring at high speeds, but it's not really a sports car anymore. The 992 is even larger. The next generation Cayman will reportedly be on the platform the 992 is coming on...

Should an Evora be cheaper? Well, that depends on what you value. I like that it isn't a conventional pressed unit body, and that it isn't carrying hundreds of pounds of sound deadening and computer gadgetry. Does that make it worth less than a car that does have those things? I think that depends on how much you value sound damping and computer gadgetry.
 

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The dealership network is killing this brand.
While I'm really liking mine and find it a decent value considering the fun I have in it it is that dealership network issue that will probably be what has me switching to something else if I lose my local dealership
 

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I too value the simplistic build of the Lotus, however dumping insulation is sort of silly.
The insulation package on a new Peterbilt adds 19# total straight from the data book and makes a significant difference.
Being able to hold a conversation in a modern car, for some very small amount of weight gain, is valuable to most people.
That said, the market has spoken, and the Evora does't sell at current prices in any reasonable numbers. What do they sell, 50 per year?
With it's looks, reliable engine, lightweight, and even a 2+2 option, it has lots to offer in the sports car world. To top it off there are less manual options than ever before, and there are tons of hard core sports car buyers looking for something unique.
The dealer network would adapt to market demand if product sold.
Certainly Lotus will never have economies of scale like GM, I don't even particularly like the C8 (I own a C6), but the technology and development you are getting in an $80k C8 is quite amazing in comparison.
I hope the Chinese can figure out how to get the price way down for the future of the brand. I mean WAY down.

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Did they get rid of the leaf springs on the Corvette yet?
 

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For those who haven't seen it, a nicely polished video review of the Evora GT

I will try to watch again. I saw it the other day but when they opened with the sound effect of the car shifting with both hands on the wheel, I bailed. :unsure:
 
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