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Discussion Starter #1
I was just typing most of this as a PM to Shay2nak and thought the story might be of some interest to others....



What number are you at Silver Star ? Have you ordered ? I can't wait for them to get a demo. The prime reason I still have a deposit with them is so I can drive the demo.

My car is ordered since March at Steve Harris. I got screwed over by Silver Star. I was number 37 and with drop offs I got called to order amoung the top 30 last March. It happened they called me the day after I put in my order with Steve Harris in SLC. I laughed and told them the story about ordering the day before. They didn't think it was funny and were angry about me being on two lists. They pretty much threw me off their list. I reluctantly said OK as my deposit at Steve Harris was now non refundable anyway. Weeks went by and I got no refund of my $1k. About this time the stories about different size dealer allocations were running rampant and I knew Harris in SLC would not get a large allotment. If the stories turned out to be true that different dealers would get bigger allotments, I figured I better try and get back on a LA dealer list. I decided to call Silver Star and be put back on the list, at first they refused. After two more weeks of waiting I still got no check. I called again and said I'm tired of waiting for my refund, besides I'd rather be back on the list. They said they didn't want their lst to appear artificially long because of multiple deposit holders like me. I told them I just want a car as soon as possible, probably just like they do. I also told them I only looked to another dealer as protection against price markup because they had refused to gaurantee MSRP. At any rate I am now back on the list having been skipped over so to speak. I am supposedly #1 of the next group to order but who knows, they've still got my money.


Am I the only one to be told to take a hike ?


Steve
 

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did you just say they have taken 30 orders? i must be somnambulating through elisetalk.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
LotusLust said:
did you just say they have taken 30 orders? i must be somnambulating through elisetalk.

Yes, most dealers sent in orders 1-10 to Lotus in January
and orders 11-30 to Lotus in March. These are not deposits, but firm orders with colors and options.

Steve
 

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Personally, I think the multiple deposit game is bad form.
 

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i agree, but if they are substantially separated in delivery date one may actually buy from both deposits
 

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I have mixed feelings about people who placed multiple deposits. I think that most of us would be surprised if we learned how many people actually hold multiple deposits.

I can understand the desire to protect yourself, but I'm not happy about people cluttering up the lists. However, once you decide to place an order at one dealership, it seems fair to drop other spots on other lists. Unless you are flipper scum planning to profiteer from selling off cars.

Of course, when I got nervous about the Symbolic Beverly Hills situation, I ran down to the Silver Star dealership to see about placing a back-up deposit. I could have been number 23 on their list. However, they turned me off by their refusal to guarantee MSRP and the fact that they apparently were working with a customer to sell his #2 spot on the list at an outrageous profit (the dealer never confirmed that they were splitting the profits, but the customer said that his proposed sale for $5000 to $8000 was being conducted with dealer knowledge, so I drew my own conclusions).

I also contacted some other dealers, but in the end I decided to stick with Symbolic and trust that things would work out as they outlined to me, which appears will be the case.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
jml1952 said:
I have mixed feelings about people who placed multiple deposits. I think that most of us would be surprised if we learned how many people actually hold multiple deposits.

I can understand the desire to protect yourself, but I'm not happy about people cluttering up the lists. However, once you decide to place an order at one dealership, it seems fair to drop other spots on other lists. Unless you are flipper scum planning to profiteer from selling off cars.

Of course, when I got nervous about the Symbolic Beverly Hills situation, I ran down to the Silver Star dealership to see about placing a back-up deposit. I could have been number 23 on their list. However, they turned me off by their refusal to guarantee MSRP
Last October I called Symbolic BH first and was offered #61 with a $2K deposit I called Silver Star and was offered #37 with a $1K deposit. Kind of a no brainer decision. After the fact I realized that a deposit with no written gaurantee of MSRP might be a BIG problem. I called all over the West coast to find long lists or markups or no gaurantees. I put a second deposit at Steve Harris in SLC to get spot #25 with written MSRP. I'm not having any guilt feelings. I'm extremly happy to be unassociated with Symbolic. I really don't understand how anyone who read Nicks posts at the old Lotus board (as you did) can feel comfortable with a deposit in their hands. I wish you the very best, but fear you won't get fair treatment from the likes of Nick.

Regards

Steve
 

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huggy bear said:
I think it artificially inflates demand in the short-term. Recently, I purchased an Audi RS 6, #1 spot, at the dealer with check in hand the day the announcement was made, waited 18 mos for the car. Audi originally intended on bringing over 880 of them but after all the list frenzy, upped the allocation to ~1100. When the cars actually arrived, after all the die-hards took delivery, there ended up being a surplus in some markets. I spoke to several dealerships that indicated that many of the cars they were stuck with were do to people holding multiple deposits and they closed on the first to arrive; there was also a fair amount of speculation also occurring. If Audi would have stuck to the original allocation, and not been swayed by this artificial clamor, the cars would have retained more of their promised "exclusivity" and value. BTW, I know a car is a depreciating asset and I don't buy them as investments

Secondly, I think it's just a disingenuous thing to do. I know, some dealers probably have it coming to them, but it's not how I operate.

For those of you hedging because of less than forthright dealers, I completely understand and agree with your position.
 

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Like I said last night over drinks.. my prediction is that Randy will be the ONLY Symbolic customer picking up a car for MSRP in the first year. The rest of us will learn the meaning of markup in a seller's market.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they're having daily backroom meetings wringing their hands over how they might somehow screw Randy for Market Adjustment without taking a backlash from racers and enthusiasts all over the Internet and AutoX circuit.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ICONCLS said:

For those of you hedging because of less than forthright dealers, I completely understand and agree with your position.
As far as I know thats pretty much what every multi deposit
holder is doing. So whats your gripe ? Every multi deposit holder is putting out cash for the right also. It's not as though you just put your name on a free list at all 38 dealers. After all I do have the right to buy two cars as well don't I ?

Are you concerned that Lotus will make 2201 cars instead of 2200
and get stuck with one they can't sell ?

Steve
 

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Sown-man said:
As far as I know thats pretty much what every multi deposit
holder is doing. So whats your gripe ?
I would wager many multi-depositors are holding spots to see which one will pay off first. We've learned that many dealers will sell the canceled spot to the highest bidder instead of bumping us all down. Kinda sucks for us further down the list.

after all I do have the right to buy two cars as well don't I ?
That's just silly.

Are you concerned that Lotus will make 2201 cars instead of 2200
and get stuck with one they can't sell ?
The Elise was never marketed as exclusive or with a predefined allocation.
 

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I agree wit ICONO,

What if everyone had a deposit down at two dealers? That'd mean Lotus is building cars with the thought that they had 3000 deposits and actually only had 1500. Unless everyone that has two deposits intended to buy both cars, which obviously they don't. Got to tell you Sown, if I was the original dealer you had a deposit with, no way I'd have let you back on the list.

I did have two deposits, one put down long ago, but when a dealer opened up closer to me I put a deposit there. Pulled my second deposit probably 10 months ago.


Chris
 

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No simple blame here from my perspective.

After some perceived dealer shenanigans, savvy buyers place two deposits down. With refundable deposits, the only risk is loss of interest for a year, big deal. And what is the harm from the buyer's point of view? They get a call saying a car is on the way, and they drop off the other list and get a refund of the deposit there. No harm.

The problem comes up because some (or many) dealers see a drop on the list as an opportunity to sell a car at market value and create some revenue. Nothing wrong with that from the dealer's point of view, heck someone later on the list knew they were in spot 22, and they still are in spot 22.

Spot 22 though, is not thrilled. He sees that without the inflated list waiters, he may have been spot 16 instead of the dealer selling 6 spots.

The question I have is, how prevalent is this or is it just a few people that have multiple deposits down?
 

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Randy Chase said:
Spot 22 though, is not thrilled. He sees that without the inflated list waiters, he may have been spot 16 instead of the dealer selling 6 spots.
I'd feel like crap if I kept a fellow enthusiast from perhaps getting their car sooner; but hey, I'm just whacky in that way.
 

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The problem comes up because some (or many) dealers see a drop on the list as an opportunity to sell a car at market value and create some revenue.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't think that dealers needs to see a drop on the list as an opportunity to sell the car at market value and create some revenue.
They can squeeze into their list when ever they receive a better offer, and who will know their dis-honesty !!!!:mad: Unless they post their list to everyone from the begining. :D

Roland
Want to take a ride in my Lotus, click this
http://www.geocities.com/rolandchen/elise.html
LOTUS
Lot Of Trouble Usually Serious
 

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Sownman said:
Last October I called Symbolic BH first and was offered #61 with a $2K deposit I called Silver Star and was offered #37 with a $1K deposit. Kind of a no brainer decision. After the fact I realized that a deposit with no written gaurantee of MSRP might be a BIG problem. I called all over the West coast to find long lists or markups or no gaurantees. I put a second deposit at Steve Harris in SLC to get spot #25 with written MSRP. I'm not having any guilt feelings. I'm extremly happy to be unassociated with Symbolic. I really don't understand how anyone who read Nicks posts at the old Lotus board (as you did) can feel comfortable with a deposit in their hands. I wish you the very best, but fear you won't get fair treatment from the likes of Nick.

Regards

Steve
I won't feel totally comfortable until I take delivery on my car. But I believe (perhaps naively) that Symbolic will deliver my car at MSRP and will deliver it within a reasonable time frame (August or so). I spent a lot of time talking to Nick after those infamous posts on the old Lotus board and I think that I got a good sense of how they have chosen to behave. I have a strong impression that they moved a handful of loyal customers ahead of me and that they are diverting several early cars for sale to the highest bidder. I have no doubt that this has moved me down a dozen or more slots over where I should be, which probably is costing me a couple of months in extra waiting.

Not ideal, but I can tolerate this in exchange for getting my car at MSRP.

Basically, picking a dealer was a crap shoot. With the long lead time, it was pretty hard to tell how things would work out. With the car receiving rave reviews, I will consider myself fortunate to get one at MSRP within the first six months of deliveries, and I will be thrilled if it arrives by August.
 
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