[NoFear99]

A fully loaded Cayman GTS/GT4 is $30-40k more than a fully loaded Emira.

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Myself I dont want a Porsche. I have the brand Lotus on my heart but....

The fully loaded Porsche has a lot more options than the Emira has. Porsche have carbon fiber everywhere fully loaded and carbon fiber race bucket seat while the Emira have no carbon fiber at all and no race bucket seats either. Take all the options the Emira has and do the same to the Porsche and the results is going to be different.

They took an extra 4K-5K US onto the Emira pricing because the demand was probably higher then planned.
When I do all the math with their price position in the UK I always get 86-90K USD at the most.

The Emira could be priced 120K-125K up here in Canada while I can order a base Cayman GT4 for 116K or a very well equipped GTS 4.0 with special color paint, premium package, carbon fiber bucket seats , destination charge included for 110 390$. Destination charge for Lotus are double the price of Porsche and not yet included into the Lotus pricing we are talking.

The Emira V6 FE is 14.5% cheaper than the Evora base price in UK.

In USA the car is 3% cheaper than the Evora base price. Hello good morning America !!!

In Canada if the price of 125K is confirmed this week like my salesman told me last week it means the Emira V6 FE is 4% cheaper than the Evora base price of 130K.

125K is 7K more then the USD to CAD exchange rate conversion.
So another little extra here and there no problem, we want your monney and we will get it.

93 900$ US = 118 300$ CAD as of today exchange rate.

 

[NoFear99]

Here in Canada, our income are not 30% higher than those in the States but the price of the car is 30% higher while every other car brand price their cars in Canada 15-16% more than the US price. The tax on our income for an average salary are between 30% to 45%. Also my sales tax is 15% while in Florida it is 7% for example. The life cost is as much expensive here if not higher because of our hard winter ( high electric bill, winters tires, winter clothes and many more ) grocery cost is pretty much the same, our gas is more expensive, so at the end our purchasing power is hardly hit.

In USA the Emira will cost to the door including taxs and destination charge 103-105K while mine is going to cost 145K.

 

[NoFear99]

Enzo Ferrari said, when you buy a Ferrari, you buy the engine and you get the rest of the car for free.

With a Lotus, you buy the chassis and the handling dynamics. The rest of the car is free. Can we just STOP comparing a Lotus to mass produced German cars!

If you want Lotus to survive they need to compete with Porsche and other mass produced cars brand.

They are themselfe saying they want to grab some Cayman and C8 customers with the Emira.

The average car guys enthousiast is the targeted customer just like the Elise and the Exige was not the rich and fortunate Ferrari's lambo's customers. Those will continue to buy 300K-500K cars to proudly show their standing level.

They are not attacking Ferrari with the Emira. Your philosophy / vision do not apply here.

The way you are thinking about Lotus is already dead.

Geely did not buy Lotus to have the same bussiness plan marketing strategy position into the market as before.

If you always do and think the same ; the results arent going to change either.

Did you miss the chapter where Lotus have been purchased several time in the past because they are not profitable ?

Would you continue to operate your own bussiness just for the pleasure to continue to be a small niche special company but not really making monney ?

Volume is the key today and to get volume you need to mass produce like Porsche does period no matter if you like it or not. Who better placed than a chinese group to know that.

 

[NoFear99]

but, free healthcare! haha.

Yes but the public health care is bad. Most people with some monney go to private health care anyhow to get good and better services.

I would gladly prefer if my income tax was twice less expensive and pay for a good health care insurance for the family at 300$ per month and being treat like a customers when I go to the hospital instead to be considered as a numbers.

Everytime we have been to a clinic in Florida we always had fast and very good services response. Here we have to wait 8 to 12 hours to see a doctor at the emergency and if you take an appointment with your own family doctor you will need 4 to 6 weeks before to be able to do so.

 

[NoFear99]

Show me where please.

I will try to find the article again just for you and will link it later for sure.

Is it possible that I may have read a lot more on the subject than you ?

 

[NoFear99]

If people are worried about the value proposition, just get a C8. Chevy nailed it in that regard. Best bang for the buck out there for a mid-engine performance car. The Emira is going to look better than anything else in its price range, or even quite a few above its price range. It's probably going to handle better, and has a manual trans. You're not going to find anything else like it under $100k, period. Buy it for what it is, because honestly there's really nothing else out there to compare it to because it's not just another car. Price isn't the best comparison. If price is your main focus, get something else.

If my total bill to get the car was 100-105K just like you I wouldnt mind just like you. If the Emira would cost you 145KUS maybe your speech would be quite different.

I am not a Porsche guys and not a Corvette fan either. I try very hard as much as I can everyday to convince my father to do not change his Ferrari Modena for the C8.

 

[NoFear99]

Show me where please.

There you go my friend.

Lotus targets U.S. buyers with Emira's 'user-friendly' features

The UK sports-car maker is targeting overall annual sales of 5,000 vehicles under its revival plan, and it wants a third of that volume to come from the U.S.

europe.autonews.com

Clare cited the base-spec Chevrolet Corvette as one rival for the Emira, along with European competition such as the Jaguar F-type, Porsche Cayman and BMW Z4.

Simon Clare, head of marketing for Lotus

 

[NoFear99]

At 3000lbs, I'd be shopping a highly optioned C8. Unfortunately , America can't compete in the lithe and agility dept. They prefer to bludgeon tar with HP.

If I was into a quest for horsepower and speed , I would buy this just like my neighbor got last week but have zero interest for american car. 760HP for 100.5K.

 

[NoFear99]

Hey..I guess I missed something. Have they even announced the Emira pricing in Canada or is all of this preemptive whining?

The official Canada Emira pricing should be known this week with what Lotus of Vancouver told me.

My salesman and friend told me last week it was going to be 125K unofficialy when the USD to CAD exchange rate gives 118 300$ as of today rate. So another 7K on top of the 26% exchange rate. Do you think that this would be a good deal ?

We will see but it look no so good right now.

If the Emira could be priced in Canada just like the British Jaguars F-Type 2022 is, the Emira would be priced at 114 690$ and it would be fair.

F-Type 70KUSD = 85 500$ CAD
Emira FE V6 93.9K USD = 114 690$ CAD

That way the car would be a tad bit lower then a 116K base Cayman GT4 and slightly higher then a very well equipped GTS 4.0 at 95K base price + 15-17K in options including carbon bucket seats and destination charge.

C8 62K USD = 72K CAD

M2 CS 85K USD = 98K CAD

M4 Competition 75K USD = 88K CAD

The Canadian pricing for other cars do not even belong to the 26% exchange rate like Lotus does in the past for us.

 

[NoFear99]

Let's be realistic here, you're not buying a mass-produced car or even a low-production car from a company that's used to mass-producing vehicles. This isn't like buying a Toyota Supra/C8 where you have a huge company, dealer network, any part you need when you need it. A huge community, aftermarket support, and so on.

I think reality will hit for many people who may be price-sensitive buyers and are stretching to buy the car. You're NOT buying a BMW 2-series with an M-badge, you're buying a boutique brand/car. Expect imperfections as you would with a supercar purchase (i.e. low-volume one-off type issues). Your maintenance costs will be higher, parts costs will be higher, parts availability will be more scare, this may drive insurance costs up as well. There may not be a "known issue/recall" that you can just run to the dealer for. You may be debugging a problem with the dealer for the first time and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect the car to break down in the middle of the road and not work, but people should understand that, until proven otherwise, this isn't the kind of car you get as your daily driver and depend on for everything. At least I wouldn't. I've yet to own a single car/motorcycle that hasn't had a recall or a problem in the first year.

Lotus will be successful with the Emira, but as they attract more price conscious buyers, there will be higher stakes; anything minor will be amplified. Expectations differ between market segments, I hope both buyer and seller are ready for this.

Porsche sell +or- 3000 Cayman in North America per year.

Lotus plan is to sell 4800 Emira per year to be profitable and close to 2000 units for North America alone.

I think very well that the terms low mass production can be applied here.

You are still thinking at Lotus the way you know it from the past.

If you see it like that too for the future better close the book right now.

The brand will disapear. I dont want that to happen and you probably dont want either.
To reach those sales numbers years after year for 5 to 10 years from now, you need the car to be affordable to the targeted customers. The average car enthousiast just like the Elise and Exige did in the past. Lotus sales dropped when they started raising the Evora price higher and higher.

 

[NoFear99]

First of all, Porsche, until recently shared the same production line for the 911 and 718, helping with economies of scale.
Second, your numbers aren't even close. First six months of this year, Porsche sold 2412 718's in the US alone.

Just cry and get it out of your system already.

( I see you tried to correct your numbers...getting closer.)

If your production pass from 1400 to 4800 units per year dont you call that a low mass production car ?

See what happen to the sales number when the higher priced Evora S model came out in 2010-2011.

Their loyal customers data base are not for cars priced too high.

They will have more succes playing into the Cayman territory then into the 911 territory.

EUROPE SALES

USA :

 

[NoFear99]

I dont know how big the Geely groups is compare to Porsche but I saw they had 209 billions revenue back in 2016. So I think we are in bussiness to talk about a low mass production vehicule and until now everything is pretty well aligned to get there.

 

[NoFear99]

Interesting, considering Lotus themselves said the base I4 was going to be $74,900.

+ 2 200$ destination chargé probably.

 

[NoFear99]

One is a newly formed relationship and mostly financial in nature, the other has been producing cars for longer than we've been alive. Apples and oranges, my friend. Just look forward to the car and enjoy knowing that for every 100 Porsche's you'll see on the road, you might see one Lotus

We all like that exclusivity but Lotus cannot continue to be that exclusive otherwise we wont be able to get another Lotus in the future. There is a sweet spot between becoming as common as a Porsche and not beeing as rare as the current Lotus. Too much is like not enough like everything in general.

 

[NoFear99]

I’m surprise nobody find questionable the fact that the Emira FE V6 is 14.5% cheaper than their Evora base price in UK and for North America it is a skinny 3% difference only.

How come such a different position pricing strategy ?

I recall that the destination charge of 2 200$US per car is not yet included into that 93 900$ price and the GBP to USD currency is as of now 6-7% different from 2019 and 2-3% different from 2018 but no 11-12% difference.

If we can attribute a 7% loss because of the current bad exchange rate let's try with a price point 7-8% lower then the Evora base price :

96 950$ - 7.5% = 89 675$ or 89 995$ from a marketing point of view it sounds and look better.

2021 = 1.36

1.28 + 6% = 1.356

1.28 + 7% = 1.3696

 

[NoFear99]

The GBP-vs-USD exchange rate is near historical lows. This means it is prudent for Lotus to hedge against future increases with a 5-10 year horizon, given the anticipated length of time that the Emira will remain available in the US.

I do not buy that argument at all because car company can revise and change their price every year if they want and call that inflation so no need to fix a price to anticipate the 10 years to come.

 

[NoFear99]

Do you mean there is a delay in response or as you seemed to say it's an issue of accelerator mapping so you have to push further down to get more gas compared to other cars?

If it's accelerator mapping it's probably intentional because people who track want a more linear response (10% pedal travel really means 10% power etc) so the driver has the most control. Most cars give you a false sense of power by mapping 10% travel to much more power, say 20% or 30%, so you get at lot initially but little as you keep pushing down on the accelerator... which is bad for tracking.

Gas pedals are almost a computer itself by now. I remember having tried several Mercedes Benz with a delay on the accelerator probably to help having a smoother experience but you dont want that on a sport car.

My STI was like that also with the sport or sport sharp mode. The throttle response is ultra sensitive into sharp mode but from 75% to 100% travel you do not see any difference. Like you said no good at all for people who track theirs cars.

Nothing better than the good old wire alone that goes from the pedal to the throttle body !

 

[NoFear99]

I think it's 11.2%? 75,995 for Emira FE V6versus 85,675 for the GT410, but I get the point.

Look at the GT410 sport it is a lot more close to the Evora GT.
The GT 410 non-sport look like a cheaper version then our base GT.

 

[NoFear99]

Price? Two comments - 1. if you have to ask.....or the variation on that expression.....someone who wants that specific car is concerned over some thousands?

4 000$usd means +5 200$cad + 15% sale taxs = +6k.

I would like to be able to tell you I dont give a f_ _ _ +6K-8K on top of the 132K -135K I was targeting but for some it may be the difference between the dream comes true or not.
If my pocket could be deep enough I would gladly pay 150K-175K for the car because it is the one that I want.

At 140-145K CAD with taxs it is starting to make big monney for the average car enthousiast ; It is almost half the price of my house.

Even if my budget is way way higher then the one needed to buy one of those cars listed below into the article it look more like if I should have a budget for a 911 instead.

I am not saying the Emira price is a steal but is it possible that Lotus may have take a little extra on top of the cherry for the North American market ?

 

[NoFear99]

2. Remember that the price of a nice Esprit about 25 years ago was around $86,000. So this is inflation?

I dont think the parallel is good. The Esprit was for a different customer segment. ( Different league )

Look at how it was a niche product when you think they have build 10 675 Esprit in all time while they want to sell 4 800 Emira per year.