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Let's be realistic here, you're not buying a mass-produced car or even a low-production car from a company that's used to mass-producing vehicles. This isn't like buying a Toyota Supra/C8 where you have a huge company, dealer network, any part you need when you need it. A huge community, aftermarket support, and so on.

I think reality will hit for many people who may be price-sensitive buyers and are stretching to buy the car. You're NOT buying a BMW 2-series with an M-badge, you're buying a boutique brand/car. Expect imperfections as you would with a supercar purchase (i.e. low-volume one-off type issues). Your maintenance costs will be higher, parts costs will be higher, parts availability will be more scare, this may drive insurance costs up as well. There may not be a "known issue/recall" that you can just run to the dealer for. You may be debugging a problem with the dealer for the first time and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect the car to break down in the middle of the road and not work, but people should understand that, until proven otherwise, this isn't the kind of car you get as your daily driver and depend on for everything. At least I wouldn't. I've yet to own a single car/motorcycle that hasn't had a recall or a problem in the first year.

Lotus will be successful with the Emira, but as they attract more price conscious buyers, there will be higher stakes; anything minor will be amplified. Expectations differ between market segments, I hope both buyer and seller are ready for this.
 

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Porsche sell +or- 3000 Cayman in North America per year.

Lotus plan is to sell 4800 Emira per year to be profitable and close to 2000 units for North America alone.

I think very well that the terms low mass production can be applied here.
Porsche made 272k vehicles last year. Source: Brief Overview 2020

They also have insanely deep pockets, majority ownership stake in VAG which is the umbrella company for VW, Audi, Lamborghini, Porsche, etc. Basically one of the largest automotive manufacturers in the world with a combined 8.9 million cars produced last year.

So yeah, let's not compare to how many Cayman Porsche sold in North America ;)

You are still thinking at Lotus the way you know it from the past.

If you see it like that too for the future better close the book right now.

The brand will disapear. I dont want that to happen and you probably dont want either.
To reach those sales numbers years after year for 5 to 10 years from now, you need the car to be affordable to the targeted customers. The average car enthousiast just like the Elise and Exige did in the past. Lotus sales dropped when they started raising the Evora price higher and higher.
Well, Lotus still hasn't sold a single Emira, they've only sold a promise. Granted the future is looking brighter, but the timing is also potentially on Lotus' side. Sales will matter - especially in the coming years after this initial buzz wears off. And the buzz will wear off if Lotus manufactures every car they can, which Matt Windle has already stated. Their saving grace is that they won't be able to produce quite as quickly as they think, but words have meaning, so I hope Lotus speaks cautiously. They need not look far at McLaren to see the repercussions. The hype and demand drop when there's a steady supply. We want things we can't have, it's human nature.
 

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While it is hard to purchase the 718 or any Porsche for that matter, without being optioned up. Those options cost a pretty penny and no base GTS to GT4 is appointed as well as the FE Emira. leather, contracts stitching, LED lights, premium sound system, navi, metallic paint, The Emira is the lower cost deal.
Sure, but I'm sure there are options Porsche has the Emira doesn't, so let's add those. PDK is like $3k. You want it in the Emira and JUBU will charge you $25k. Want a convertible? That's a DIY option only.

Ok, I'm joking, but these comparisons really aren't apples to apples. To the general public having a dealer in the area would be important - what's that worth? I won't enumerate all of the ways Lotus can't match a Porsche, because it's pretty useless.

The question is: at the price, is it a compelling offering? I believe it is. It's unique, beautiful and has that je ne sais quoi evoking passion. It's no less striking looking than many supercars - it just doesn't have the drivetrain of one.
 

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I dont know how big the Geely groups is compare to Porsche but I saw they had 209
billions revenue back in 2016. So I think we are in bussiness to talk about a low mass production vehicule and until now everything is pretty well aligned to get there.
One is a newly formed relationship and mostly financial in nature, the other has been producing cars for longer than we've been alive. Apples and oranges, my friend. Just look forward to the car and enjoy knowing that for every 100 Porsche's you'll see on the road, you might see one Lotus ;)
 

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I spent a few days with the Cayman and was disappointed. The accelerator's response was sloppy. You really have to step hard to push it. I think the Porsche is over rated. I expect the Emira to do better.
"Cayman" or Cayman GTS 4.0/GT4? Cayman comes with multiple engine/transmission options, please be specific.
 

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You're way off. That would have me seeing a Lotus every 5 days!
You're right, I was off by at least a factor of 10. Sorry, that's what happens when I post while doing other things.

We all like that exclusivity but Lotus cannot continue to be that exclusive otherwise we wont be able to get another Lotus in the future. There is a sweet spot between becoming as common as a Porsche and not beeing as rare as the current Lotus. Too much is like not enough like everything in general.
Well, just look at the numbers. Even if Lotus maxes out production (not gonna happen for a while) and is able to sell every car it makes (success in everyone's book), it's still a pittance compared to how many Porsche's there are on the road.

So many posts on the new Emira. So I will admit that I'm to lazy to wade through it all. Can anyone explain how there is 19 grand difference between the two. I put a deposit down on a V6, but now thinking the AMG might make more sense. My apologies if this has been covered a dozen times.
Don't worry about the stuff we post about here. Most people just need something to talk about while we wait for info, wait to order, wait for the car, etc.

The options will be given to you by your dealer before ordering and most, if not all dealers, will have the car for you to sit in. You'll see samples of the colors, feel the leather, etc.

Again, ignore the noise here, we just got nothing better to do with our time than to complain, speculate, teach Lotus how to run their business and so on ;)
 

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It was a Cayman S. I have driven 2 recent Porsches. Their accelerator response is the same. You have to step hard to get it responsive. It is not lack of power but the response of the acclerator pedal. Hardly fun for driving.
Yeah, that's a completely different animal. It's a 2.5L turbo and it'll feel laggy. Try the 4.0L N/A engine and see if if you still feel the same way. That will also still feel different than the Evora/Emira. It'll feel more like a race engine with more top-end/high RPM.

For comparison, the Evora GT was making 8.7lbs of boost, so... (8.7/14.7 + 1) * 3.5 = ~5.5L engine equivalent if you don't take into account parasitic and thermal losses.
 

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The price is amazing for what it is. You can get the base I4. Throw in a tune to get up to 518hp/433lbft. Throw on new turbos and it is 550-600hp. That is what I hate about the Toyota V6. There is little to no room to upgrading it. I am sure we will see engine swaps coming. I still think it is a bargain even at 93K. There will always be faster cars out there.
Completely agree with you, except the Toyota V6 can be built to way more power than the chassis will handle (I've read somewhere the bottom-end will hold 800-900whp). It's the transmission that's a bummer and needs to be upgraded.
 

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If you have the budget for a $140k+ car, why were you looking at the Emira in the first place?
Because it's sexy and unique! Outside of supercars you can't find this kind of design. I was looking at buying a $270k car, but after seeing the Emira I put a pause on that purchase thinking Lotus wouldn't just look special but would be more special than the predecessor. I did not expect a detuned engine and much worse performance specs than before. At least match it.

Anyway, point is just that being able to afford a car is one thing, justifying/loving it is another.
 

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I’m cross shopping a lot of cars in a lot of price ranges. What are you considering for $270k?
I considered many cars, but was ready to pull the trigger on a Huracan EVO RWD. There's not much else out there which tickled my fancy and to be honest, I was doing it more because I could rather than because I was in-love. You know, like getting married to a chick because you're out of other options ;)

Then the Emira came along and I got that tingly sensation - love-at-first-sight... or so I thought. Waiting for official word from Lotus to see if it truly is love or if I gotta get back on Tinder (or whatever app the kids are using these days ;))

Just curious, what are you considering and what are your reasons?
 

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I am not knocking the EMIRA, but constructively critiquing some bad moves that hold it back from it making LOTUS tons of money.

I still really like the car, but like I am stating, BIG MISTAKE detuning the I-4 when its no secret what it can do (420hp-430hp) and then asking $75k for that with ZERO options.
Well, we still don't know 100%, we're speculating. So let's wait and see. From a marketing perspective though, Lotus isn't doing themselves favors. I'm still hopeful we'll get the Evora GT engine/performance in the US and the detuned stuff is in the UK due to emissions/noise/whatever regulations.
 

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You have no idea what's involved in dealing with regulations in today's heavily regulated, government suffocated world do you. It gets steadily worse every year. They haven't even finished the final specs for the V6 yet. They won't even start on the i4 until next year. Get something else; you're not going to be happy otherwise.
What are you talking about? This is an engine that's already in a production car - has been for years.

This is the part I don't like about some of the posts here. The made up excuses, before we even have a product. Yes, we all understand that you don't need power to have fun and there's a lot more to that formula than just power. But we don't need a detuned version of an engine that's been in production for over a decade, just so we can have another 'upgraded' version in the future of an engine we've already had.

Anyway, I'll eat my words and write a check on the spot if the US gets the red engine cover with the same Evora GT 416hp. If they don't it'll be a blow in the gut and I'm not sure what I'll do.

The worst part about it is if that happens and Lotus doesn't come out and say something (like: "we wanted to, but regulations changed" and so on), but just act like it's normal. Part of the success of the Porsche GT cars isn't just the performance, but largely the marketing. Ferrari and Porsche as great at marketing. When you have someone like Andreas Preuninger doing lengthy interviews and explaining so many details about the cars.
 

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I mean first year evora had no supercharger. I'm pretty sure they are used to screwing over early adopters. But, I think the V6 (manual) is a nice send off for them.
They didn't have a supercharger because it wasn't available at that time.

The Toyota 2GR-FE engine was released in 2004 (Toyota 2GR-FE Guide – Everything You Need To Know) and Evora launched in 2008 (design phase before that). So they took a modern engine for that time, one that's known to be reliable and put it in the car. Then in 2010 they came out with the "S" (supercharged) engine making approximately 345hp. In 2015 they released the intercooled Evora 400 making 400hp.

I won't go over the full history, you can read about it on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Evora), but the point I wanted to make is that Lotus wasn't necessarily screwing the early Evora buyers - they were upgrading as they could and they did a good job given the financial constraints.

However, if they don't start where they left off with the Evora, they will in effect be screwing the Emira buyers. For their sake, I hope that won't be the case. I really hope we are just going crazy in these forums due to lack of info and Lotus will come out and surprise us - by offering what has already existed. Yup, that'd be good enough for me ;)
 

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Survey says 3-4k USD less. Probably $89,990
People think that the FE is priced higher because of options. Based on everything I've heard and read, the $94k is the base price. The FE is getting all of the options at no additional cost. So everyone hoping for a cheaper future Emira without options better be looking to get an i4. I don't think the V6 will be a penny less, in fact, it'll be more.
 

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View attachment 1298969


That blue thingy bottom left
Doesn't bother me at all, it's a simple part that's easy to replace and is most likely not final. That's one of those parts, where if Lotus does make a decision to make it in blue (or body matching color), you'll be able to order an anodized aluminum cap from some aftermarket party for $50. Not at all in the same ballpark as the SC cover.
 

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You're assuming Lotus is just dropping in the exact same engine/trans they were using before without any modifications; the same engine that passed the regulations that used to be in effect, but have changed. The government tightens the emissions requirments steadily, year after year. Regulations for crash and safety also change. I have no doubt that Lotus has been working with the software and tuning to keep the car compliant with the regulations it has to meet for homologation, yet give it as much performance as they can. You don't think they'd love to say the Emira has 450 hp? Or even 430?
Assuming? It is the same exact engine and transmission. If there were modifications it would be part of their advertising, just like everything else. Companies like to boast about things like this.

They shouldn't have to say this. They may actually be assuming that their customer base is educated enough to understand this; especially if they're an enthusiast who follows the sport and industry.
I'm educated enough to understand that if it were stated somewhere. But so far you're the one doing the explaining and defending, not Lotus. So unless you have some insight from Lotus or can point to some new regulations, you're making the same exact assumptions the rest of us are. Except you're being defensive on Lotus' behalf, which may be warranted, given how rabid some of the members are here. I hope you don't confuse what I say with some of the more extreme viewpoints - especially those people who think Lotus owes them more for less.

It's also not fair for those complaining that Lotus isn't like GM, compairing the two. GM is an international multi-billion dollar company that produces millions of vehicles, in many different types and models across multiple divisions. Lotus is making ONE car, and is a company that's used to making about 40 CARS A WEEK. Nothing even remotely close to what GM can do and does. What Lotus is doing now is a huge step up for them. Give them some slack here. They're not GM and they're not going to be able to do what GM does. Period. If that's what you're expecting, buy a C8. The Z06 is going to blow the doors off an Emira in sheer power and raw performance. Set your expectations accordingly if you're getting an Emira. It's not going to beat the Z06.
Agree with you 100% and that's part of the Lotus charm. All I'm saying is: don't deliver LESS than you did last year, Lotus. That is all, no defense needed, I'm not claiming they are going to do it, I'm just saying that's my hope - if I'm to be excited about the car.
 

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You've said that before. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If the base i4 is $74,900, then it's only going to be a few thousand more to switch to the V6; not another $20k.
Yes, I have and note their literature says No Cost Option/NCO.

But as far as my the 'few thousand more' comment, we don't know what Toyota or AMG charge for their crate engines and what's included. A supercharger from Edelbrock is definitely not included as part of the Toyota package and the transmission has some customizations done. That SC package alone is $10k retail, let's say $5-7k wholesale to Lotus. Whereas the AMG package may be a complete drop-in and already includes the turbo's, transmission, etc. Who knows, but I don't think it's just a "few more thousand."
 

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OMG you don't think they mean they're not charging for the options? NCO means there's not an extra charge to choose between the included options if there's something you can choose, not that they aren't charging for it in the first place. They're giving you some no cost options within a bundle package that's already factored in for price. It's not free.
Well, that's how it was described to me by my dealer. The options will be available free of charge for FE. The same options will be available for the 2023 model, but at that point they will be an additional cost.

To choose between an AMG/DCT and the V6 means you subtract the cost of the AMG setup and switch it out for the V6. You're paying for the difference to upgrade. That's how it can only cost for example, $1,500 or whatever it is to change from a manual to an automatic transmission. You subtract the cost of the manual and pay the difference.
LOL, that's a given, but if you have to explain that to me, you must have a really low opinion.

All I'm saying is that it's POSSIBLE the AMG package costs Lotus $20k and it's a plug-and-play operation. Whereas the Toyota package might cost Lotus $10-15k but requires lots of customization, bringing it up to the same $20-ish thousand. Add to that a $10k supercharger and now you're at $30k.

I'm just saying, there may be more to the package than meets the eye. We don't know how well Lotus has negotiated their contract. For AMG this is one of their newest bread-and-butter engines, for Toyota it's an old retired work-horse and to keep providing it to Lotus might be more expensive too.

Who knows, we're all speculating. I'm just saying it's well within the realm of possibility that there's a pretty significant price between the pre-packaged AMG offering and the "bespoke" Toyota V6/SC option.
 

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I think there is some confusion here - the First Edition comes pre-loaded with basically all of the option packs. As a thank you for purchasing the first edition, the price is set on the car with those options already included; if you purchase a v6 in the future and select those same options in the future, it will likely be more than a First Edition. However, you would also be able to spec a base v6 with just the option packs you want and it would likely come in lower priced than the First Edition.

To state another way; buying the First Edition is for people who want the v6 models with all of the options, and in thanks Lotus is giving a "discount" on the total price of the car. Win / win - they get to standardize the first year model run and customers get fully optioned cars at a likely small discount compared to later runs.
This makes no sense. I've heard it multiple times that the FE includes about 15K GBP of options discounted to about 12k. That's the benefit of buying an FE. I can't imagine any rational scenario where the old V6/Manual base price is almost 20k higher than the new i4 base.
A $94k base price would be suicide, imo. The way you described it above is exactly how I interpreted things as well.
Well, if that's the case, then even less reason to get a First Edition. Thanks guys!
 
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