The Lotus Cars Community banner
181 - 200 of 288 Posts

·
Registered
2022 Lotus Emira
Joined
·
390 Posts
I think there is some confusion here - the First Edition comes pre-loaded with basically all of the option packs. As a thank you for purchasing the first edition, the price is set on the car with those options already included; if you purchase a v6 in the future and select those same options in the future, it will likely be more than a First Edition. However, you would also be able to spec a base v6 with just the option packs you want and it would likely come in lower priced than the First Edition.

To state another way; buying the First Edition is for people who want the v6 models with all of the options, and in thanks Lotus is giving a "discount" on the total price of the car. Win / win - they get to standardize the first year model run and customers get fully optioned cars at a likely small discount compared to later runs.
This makes no sense. I've heard it multiple times that the FE includes about 15K GBP of options discounted to about 12k. That's the benefit of buying an FE. I can't imagine any rational scenario where the old V6/Manual base price is almost 20k higher than the new i4 base.
A $94k base price would be suicide, imo. The way you described it above is exactly how I interpreted things as well.
Well, if that's the case, then even less reason to get a First Edition. Thanks guys!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
139 Posts
So GET ON THE PHONE AND TELL LOTUS. They have no idea how much more you know than they do! I'm sure Russell Carr and Gavan Kershaw, along with Matt Windle will be in awe of your advanced knowledge and wisdom! After all, they only make cars for a living, so what do they know? After years of development for this car, they probably don't know it's easy to suddenly switch engines without having any effect on planning and passing regulations! Give them a call before it's too late, and they get the FE homologated and start selling it, short-changing their customers if they'd only heard from you first!
Even a broken clock (ie, Krated :)) can be right twice a day. I don't know why you're insisting on being such an apologist for Lotus and so defensive regarding the 360hp I4? I'm sure we could pick any criticism you have for anything and come up with some hypothetical excuses to create reasons that run contrary to your criticism. My $.02c, let the debate on the detuned 360hp I4 go, IF it sticks for the US then it IS a marketing move or otherwise very worthy of the criticism it's receiving.

Hardware wise, there is very little difference between the 421hp I4 and the 382hp I4. In essense the 382hp engine is almost a detune already of the 421hp version. These are both newer engines that are very emissions efficient and nothing has changed in the laws to my knowledge that would require the engine to be so detuned. And no matter what, there is no regulation on the planet that should force a drop from 421hp down to 360hp on a newly introduced production engine.

There's plenty of meat on the bone to successfully sink your teeth into on other Emira debates ;). Defending a 360hp detune, if it happens (all this discussion can be thrown out if the 382hp version comes to the US) is only going to chip your tooth and damage your good looks :).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
People think that the FE is priced higher because of options. Based on everything I've heard and read, the $94k is the base price. The FE is getting all of the options at no additional cost. So everyone hoping for a cheaper future Emira without options better be looking to get an i4. I don't think the V6 will be a penny less, in fact, it'll be more.
thats an interesting take... where did you read/see that?
 

·
Registered
2022 Lotus Emira
Joined
·
390 Posts
If this serves as any consolation, here's the difference between US vs UK spec for the C8:

US: 495hp / 470 lbs-ft
UK: 482hp / 452 lbs-ft

Reason: Different gas particulate filters to meet more stringent UK emissions regulations according to Carfection in this C8 review just posted today:
So there IS a chance... woohoo... I just remodeled my entire garage in preparation for the Emira... Lotus better not disappoint ;)
 

·
Illegal Alien
Joined
·
5,357 Posts
People think that the FE is priced higher because of options. Based on everything I've heard and read, the $94k is the base price. The FE is getting all of the options at no additional cost. So everyone hoping for a cheaper future Emira without options better be looking to get an i4. I don't think the V6 will be a penny less, in fact, it'll be more.
Doesn't work that way. The FE pricing includes option packages at a heavy discount, but not "Free".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
I'm #10 on a z06 deposit list. Waiting for Oct 23rd to see what the z06 comes in at on price/spec before deciding. Can't have emira and z06...unfortunately. But if it's under the 94k price of the 400hp V6FE, I might have to jump ship....I mean 9,000 rpm and 600hp flat-plane v8....I know the Emira is pretty and all, but dam.
PM me I can share a little on the Z06.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
Your first point is flatly false. The FE, LOADED with options, is less than 100k. Where are you getting your numbers that just a few options will put the car over 100k?

Your other points have been hashed out repeatedly. The Emira isn't an extreme performance car, it is not a high-value car, it is not made by a car company with a large dealer network, it is not the most powerful car. There are plenty of choices along those lines if your needs lay somewhere else.

Look, the reason there are so many different car models on the market is that we all want something a little different. One car may be a poor fit for one person but a perfect fit for another. It is pointless and irrational to criticize a car for not being a perfect match with your particular needs and describe it as a "problem".
Yiu
Your first point is flatly false. The FE, LOADED with options, is less than 100k. Where are you getting your numbers that just a few options will put the car over 100k?

Your other points have been hashed out repeatedly. The Emira isn't an extreme performance car, it is not a high-value car, it is not made by a car company with a large dealer network, it is not the most powerful car. There are plenty of choices along those lines if your needs lay somewhere else.

Look, the reason there are so many different car models on the market is that we all want something a little different. One car may be a poor fit for one person but a perfect fit for another. It is pointless and irrational to criticize a car for not being a perfect match with your particular needs and describe it as a "problem".
You Joined 18 days ago & your already a Lotus expert that is very interesting, how many have you owned or driven. Owning a Lotus is a different experience than reading and typing out post. If you think the Emira which I am number 1 on the largest dealers list will come without quirks your going to be very surprise.

When I had my Evora it came with many sacrifices, build quality was not up to my standards with melting dashes, Velcro holding kick plates& instrument cover plate on. In the Texas heat the glue would loosen up on the Velcro’s which caused panels to fall off. the glue they used to put the chassis together made the car smell like a glue factory, had many conversations with the Lotus engineers and they finally change the glue. On some your needed a bionic leg to push in the clutch and on a hot day the clutch peddle would go to the floor (Fluid Tube needed a shield Oops ) the AC decided when it wanted to work. Many problems And I still stayed with the brand and feel the GT was a much better sorted out car even compared to the 400. I dismantled the entire Evora & fixed many of the issues in my post and added a extreme audio system. It was fun for me but, nothing like my Audi R8, Porsches, Corvettes Z06 C7 & C8 Z51 and many other exotics I rather not mention that I have owned & worked on.

Lotus has always had a marketing problem while Porsche is on the other side of that coin. We never know to much time left but the launch edition Emira could come out similar to my Alfa 4C LE, they checked the box on all the options, no major choices. This allowed production to control complexity and production.

My C8 Z51 was nice car but definitely felt big in comparison to the Lotus. I know the Z06 will be insane and I am looking forward to 9k RPM, DCT and a price under 100k, much better than the Porsche GT3 entry pricing..

I guess welcome aboard, Lotus is quirky but I enjoy fixing things and making them better this is why I appreciate Lotus. A few of my cars the Z06 will be number 63 Lotus Emira will be 64.
Car Vehicle Tire Wheel Hood

Wheel Car Tire Vehicle Sky
Wheel Car Tire Land vehicle Vehicle
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Hood
Wheel Tire Vehicle Car Hood
Wheel Tire Automotive parking light Vehicle Car
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Even a broken clock (ie, Krated :)) can be right twice a day. I don't know why you're insisting on being such an apologist for Lotus and so defensive regarding the 360hp I4? I'm sure we could pick any criticism you have for anything and come up with some hypothetical excuses to create reasons that run contrary to your criticism. My $.02c, let the debate on the detuned 360hp I4 go, IF it sticks for the US then it IS a marketing move or otherwise very worthy of the criticism it's receiving.

Hardware wise, there is very little difference between the 421hp I4 and the 382hp I4. In essense the 382hp engine is almost a detune already of the 421hp version. These are both newer engines that are very emissions efficient and nothing has changed in the laws to my knowledge that would require the engine to be so detuned. And no matter what, there is no regulation on the planet that should force a drop from 421hp down to 360hp on a newly introduced production engine.

There's plenty of meat on the bone to successfully sink your teeth into on other Emira debates ;). Defending a 360hp detune, if it happens (all this discussion can be thrown out if the 382hp version comes to the US) is only going to chip your tooth and damage your good looks :).
I'm insisting because those numbers are preliminary before homologation, and I think it's completely unfair to expect Lotus to be like GM or Mercedes in that regard. As someone else pointed out, they don't have any other models they can use to 'buy' emission or mileage credits to offset what the Emira has to be able to do. It has to be able to meet all the requirements completely on its own; something that none of the performance cars from GM, Porsche or Mercedes have to do. Is that apologizing? No, just the reality of the way it is for Lotus. They don't have any restrictions on design and handling however, and that's where the Emira is going to sparkle and shine. It looks like nothing else at or even near it's price range. It hits way above its weight in the looks department. Handling? Very few are going to come close, and how many of those are going to have hydraulic steering and a manual gearbox? The Emira has some very strong positives that just aren't available from anyone else anywhere near its price point.

It makes no sense to think that detuning and advertising lower hp numbers is a marketing move. They're not stupid. IF it turns out that's the only way they could get the cars homologated, then it wasn't something they wanted to do, it was something they had to do. If that winds up being the situation, that may explain why they're being so generous with the options bundling for the FE. You get the upgraded forged wheels that anybody else would charge extra for, even as a launch edition. I was very surprised to see those included. You get your choice of premium paints, interior materials with color and stitching options, and another surprise which was sport or touring suspension. Anybody else would charge extra for a sport suspension, even on a launch edition.

It's not perfect. Sure there are things that would be nice to have available, but like every other car out there, there's going to be aftermarket mod options. Set your expectations of what Lotus can do, what the Emira is and is going to be, and understand why. If that's unacceptable to you, then get something else. If the looks, handling, manual trans and real engine sounds (not piped in through the sound system) which are unmatched by anything else in its price range are what win you over, then get an Emira. You know what the price is; either it's worth it to you or it isn't. Lotus is an exotic specialty builder with a legendary racing history. It sits right there with Alfa Romeo and Porsche as far as pedigree and racing heritage. It's a Lotus, not a Corvette or Porsche. At a cars and coffee with Vettes and Porsches lined up, you pull in and people are going to walk right by all those other cars to come and look at the Emira. That's a Lotus. If you saw the video Shmee did at Goodwood, then you heard him say that at that event which probably had every exotic car in the world there, the Emira was the talk of the event. Everybody wanted to see it. It certainly wasn't because of its horsepower rating.

Lotus has always been a different kind of proposition. They're not for everybody, although this one probably comes closer to expanding that than any car they've ever made before. If you're going to have horsepower envy compared to other cars, just get one of those other cars, or get both if you can afford it and have the space. You'll probably find yourself driving the Lotus more often than not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
324 Posts
You Joined 18 days ago & your already a Lotus expert that is very interesting, how many have you owned or driven. Owning a Lotus is a different experience than reading and typing out post. If you think the Emira which I am number 1 on the largest dealers list will come without quirks your going to be very surprise.

When I had my Evora it came with many sacrifices, build quality was not up to my standards with melting dashes, Velcro holding kick plates& instrument cover plate on. In the Texas heat the glue would loosen up on the Velcro’s which caused panels to fall off. the glue they used to put the chassis together made the car smell like a glue factory, had many conversations with the Lotus engineers and they finally change the glue. On some your needed a bionic leg to push in the clutch and on a hot day the clutch peddle would go to the floor (Fluid Tube needed a shield Oops ) the AC decided when it wanted to work. Many problems And I still stayed with the brand and feel the GT was a much better sorted out car even compared to the 400. I dismantled the entire Evora & fixed many of the issues in my post and added a extreme audio system. It was fun for me but, nothing like my Audi R8, Porsches, Corvettes Z06 C7 & C8 Z51 and many other exotics I rather not mention that I have owned & worked on.

Lotus has always had a marketing problem while Porsche is on the other side of that coin. We never know to much time left but the launch edition Emira could come out similar to my Alfa 4C LE, they checked the box on all the options, no major choices. This allowed production to control complexity and production.

My C8 Z51 was nice car but definitely felt big in comparison to the Lotus. I know the Z06 will be insane and I am looking forward to 9k RPM, DCT and a price under 100k, much better than the Porsche GT3 entry pricing..

I guess welcome aboard, Lotus is quirky but I enjoy fixing things and making them better this is why I appreciate Lotus. A few of my cars the Z06 will be number 63 Lotus Emira will be 64.
View attachment 1298999
View attachment 1299002 View attachment 1299001 View attachment 1299000 View attachment 1299003 View attachment 1299004
:rolleyes: So instead of admitting that you were wrong in your statement, you launch into a personal attack and then proceed to ejaculate your car collection in an online d*ck waving session. What does it matter how many days I've been on this forum? I could be riding a tricycle right now and it wouldn't change the fact that you were flatly wrong. I never claimed to be an expert on Lotus cars. I don't need to be a Lotus expert to do basic math and tell that 93,900 is less than 100,000. In fact, you are proof positive that experience with Lotus cars has no correlation with proficiency in mathematics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
:rolleyes: So instead of admitting that you were wrong in your statement, you launch into a personal attack and then proceed to ejaculate your car collection in an online d*ck waving session. What does it matter how many days I've been on this forum? I could be riding a tricycle right now and it wouldn't change the fact that you were flatly wrong. I never claimed to be an expert on Lotus cars. I don't need to be a Lotus expert to do basic math and tell that 93,900 is less than 100,000. In fact, you are proof positive that experience with Lotus cars has no correlation with proficiency in mathematics.
Never insulted you remember your the one who attacked my post. Not wrong Emira LE with destination & taxes unless you don’t pay taxes will be over 100k. Regardless you have a little edge about you, dealt with similar on the Corvette forms. The Good news we need people on this form that ride tricycles who claim they understand what they are talking about.

D_ _k waiving huh look in the mirror like you bragging about being a manufacturer and being in the know is no different than me saying I have experienced the ownership of Lotus and that was my point. You will see what I mean when you actually buy a Emira but it will take ownership to fully understand a Lotus not just typing dopey opinions on a forum!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
324 Posts
Never insulted you remember your the one who attacked my post. Not wrong Emira LE with destination & taxes unless you don’t pay taxes will be over 100k. Regardless you have a little edge about you, dealt with similar on the Corvette forms. The Good news we need people on this form that ride tricycles who claim they understand what they are talking about.

D_ _k waiving huh look in the mirror like you bragging about being a manufacturer and being in the know is no different than me saying I have experienced the ownership of Lotus and that was my point. You will see what I mean when you actually buy a Emira but it will take ownership to fully understand a Lotus not just typing dopey options on a forum!
I pointed out a factual error you made in your post. All you had to do was admit you were a little overly enthusiastic with your numbers, but instead, you start questioning my seniority on the forum and my overall experience with Lotus cars, as if that has anything to do with math. My experience with manufacturing was relayed within the context of the complexities of regulatory compliance, which is relevant. How does your experience with Lotus cars change the fact that 93,900 is less than 100,000? And now you are trying to weasel out of it by adding in taxes. Nobody adds in taxes when talking about car prices in the US because taxes are different for everyone depending on their state. How about also addressing the fact that the FE cars are loaded and comes with more than "a few" options?

You can't make a factually false post with an inflammatory tone, and then act indignant when you are challenged on the facts. If you don't like your posts being replied to in kind, then perhaps don't write posts using a tone that you wouldn't like to see direct at you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
I pointed out a factual error you made in your post. All you had to do was admit you were a little overly enthusiastic with your numbers, but instead, you start questioning my seniority on the forum and my overall experience with Lotus cars, as if that has anything to do with math. My experience with manufacturing was relayed within the context of the complexities of regulatory compliance, which is relevant. How does your experience with Lotus cars change the fact that 93,900 is less than 100,000? And now you are trying to weasel out of it by adding in taxes. Nobody adds in taxes when talking about car prices in the US because taxes are different for everyone depending on their state. How about also addressing the fact that the FE cars are loaded and comes with more than "a few" options?

You can't make a factually false post with an inflammatory tone, and then act indignant when you are challenged on the facts. If you don't like your posts being replied to in kind, then perhaps don't write posts using a tone that you wouldn't like to see direct at you.
Can you stop with the aggressiveness behavior and move on. Car has not hit the street yet & till it does we all are speculating on final numbers especially with inflation and supply shortages. Ask the 2010 early adopters of the Lotus Evora when the 2011 took a major price decrease thanks to Lotus over pricing the car. 2nd you insulted my math truly not necessary.
Let me simply explain another point. The new Z06 with a Flat P Crank NA motor that will hit 9000 RPMs will be under the 94k Emira pricing. Please explain to the members how this is not a small problem for Lotus other than GM will not be able to make enough Z06’s for those who want one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
If this serves as any consolation, here's the difference between US vs UK C8 spec:

US: 495hp / 470 lbs-ft
UK: 482hp / 452 lbs-ft

Reason: Different gas particulate filters to meet more stringent UK emissions regulations according to Carfection in this C8 review just posted today:
That's a reduction of about 2.63%. Using just that, that would reduce 416 hp by 11 hp. If that's what Lotus has to put on the U.K. spec cars, that could mean in the U.S. they could actually have 416 while only having 400 in the U.K. Interesting.
 
181 - 200 of 288 Posts
Top