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No one is arguing this. What some people are arguing is that Lotus is not in a position to play this game. They aren't Porsche. They have a terrible dealership network, little brand cache and a reputation for unreliability. The Emira being on par or "within spitting distance" just isn't good enough IMO to get people making the trek to a "local" dealer. You do this by beating your main competition (Porsche) and beating them cleanly. That will get Joe-Porsche's attention. There appears to be very little the Emira clearly beats Porsche at. Maybe looks, but that's also subjective.

I think in the end some people are just tired of excuses from and making excuses for Lotus. You got billions of dollars and IMO what is there to show for it? A possibly heavier, better looking, de-tuned Evora GT with a nicer interior for $94k? Sorry, to me, that's just not good enough. Maybe I am in the minority and I hope Lotus does well, but I was excited for the Type 131, and was completely underwhelmed by its announcement. I am sure it will be a good car, but I am going to wait and hope it matures into something better. In the meantime I think I will try some other brands.
It looks good but it is heavier than the Evora GT and slower. I little cheaper but 96k FE (including destination charge) is a bit high. Exotic looks but that is it...Interesting to see and hear what car magazines have to say about the Emira performance, they will be comparing it to the Evora 400/GT.
 

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No one is arguing this. What some people are arguing is that Lotus is not in a position to play this game. They aren't Porsche. They have a terrible dealership network, little brand cache and a reputation for unreliability. The Emira being on par or "within spitting distance" just isn't good enough IMO to get people making the trek to a "local" dealer. You do this by beating your main competition (Porsche) and beating them cleanly. That will get Joe-Porsche's attention. There appears to be very little the Emira clearly beats Porsche at. Maybe looks, but that's also subjective.

I think in the end some people are just tired of excuses from and making excuses for Lotus. You got billions of dollars and IMO what is there to show for it? A possibly heavier, better looking, de-tuned Evora GT with a nicer interior for $94k? Sorry, to me, that's just not good enough. Maybe I am in the minority and I hope Lotus does well, but I was excited for the Type 131, and was completely underwhelmed by its announcement. I am sure it will be a good car, but I am going to wait and hope it matures into something better. In the meantime I think I will try some other brands.
I hear you and it makes plenty of sense. I'll be waiting for the car magazines review of the Emira's performance. You know they will be comparing it to the Evora 400/GT. That is going to be interesting. I love Lotus cars, I owned a 2011 Elise R, 2014 Evora NA and a 2017 Evora 400. Great cars. I would like to go back to Lotus but only If the Emira is more than just an exotic looking car. We'll see.
 

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On the pricing question, the I4 shows $77k as a base model but if I want convenience package, Design package, black package, home link then what is the guess on the final price?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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On the pricing question, the I4 shows $77k as a base model but if I want convenience package, Design package, black package, home link then what is the guess on the final price?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The price of the base i4 is $74,900 as per Lotus. We won't know what the options costs are until they update the configurator, which is supposed to be on the 18th, 6 days from now.
 

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The price of the base i4 is $74,900 as per Lotus. We won't know what the options costs are until they update the configurator, which is supposed to be on the 18th, 6 days from now.
We'll probably just get the FE V6 US pricing with the site update on the 18th. The UK configurator shows "coming soon" for the FE I4 and Base Edition.
 

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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. There is an obvious reason why the Emira V6 is 400hp and the I4 is de-tuned to 360hp. They are following the Evora model. Each iteration getting tweaks of the original build. Easy way to produce more variants. Think they already said there will be an Emira "R". Think it's super easy to slap a tune and some aero onto the I4 and call it the "R" or "S" or "GT" and cash in.
Exactly. And:
  • There is no emissions equipment (Gas Particulate Filter) to be added to the M139 i4 that would reduce power, GPF's have come stock on the 382hp and 421hp versions from the start.
  • There have been references on the UK Lotus Forums to Lotus personnel admitting privately the 360hp is due to "marketing".
  • An R, S etc i4 is coming with power that exceeds the 400hp+ V6 per Lotus. Heat is clearly NOT a reason for the 360hp detune
Lots of talk here about emissions & avg fleet #'s, with Lotus not having the big commuter fleet to average into. But that ignores several things, including:
  • Euro standards have a niche-manufacturer provision. Those in that niche have reduced requirements. Also note that Lotus could join a Pool of other car manufacturers and be aggregated within those.
  • There is also the ability for manufacturers selling under 10,000 cars/year to apply for a derogation from the emissions target per Article 10 of ER 2019/631 requirements.
  • In the emissions testing cycle, with an average speed of 29mph and a max speed not to exceed 81mph, and with methodology designed to simulate average driving in various urban, suburban etc conditions, how long do you think the M139 engine would be run at max-boost vs. partial boost (vs no boost at all)?
  • The difference between the stock 382hp M139 engine and a de-tune 360hp version is about 2psi more max boost on the 382hp engine, and no hardware changes. With electronic boost control the M139 can also choose what boost it runs for any given RPM (assuming there's enough load to generate max boost). That means it could also run reduced PSI/emissions up until higher rpm... Think on that.
Here's all the extra emissions the 421hp M139 makes vs. the 382hp (or even a 360hp!) version:
  • During cold start: The exact same.
  • During idle, cold day: The exact same.
  • During idle, warm day: The exact same.
  • Highway cruising, be it at 65mph, 75mph, 85mph, or 95mph: The exact same.
  • Urban commuting in traffic: The exact same.
  • Part-throttle acceleration where you aren't going to max boost: The exact same.
  • Under deceleration/braking: The exact same.
  • In every single driving situation you can think of, with the ONLY exception of putting your foot into the throttle hard enough to achieve max boost (and in those situations, how long will you realistically stay in full boost before backing off?): The exact same.
All that, and frankly it still doesn't matter $.01c until we actually hear what the final spec is for the U.S. i4 Emira. I am still hoping for the ~382hp spec in the US. But until then, the only official information we have to go on is what Lotus themselves has published, and so far that has not waivered from 360hp. Which, for whatever reasons it may be, is a detune from Lotus and for many of us a "sad" number for the i4 Emira to debut with in 2023 (US).
 

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I am not knocking the EMIRA, but constructively critiquing some bad moves that hold it back from it making LOTUS tons of money.

I still really like the car, but like I am stating, BIG MISTAKE detuning the I-4 when its no secret what it can do (420hp-430hp) and then asking $75k for that with ZERO options.
I'm sure Lotus isn't just pulling pricing out of their ass and takes into account how much the car costs to build. Asking less could cost them a lot of money.
 

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Some of you people amaze me. Do you really think that Russel Carr, Gavan Kershaw, Matt Windle, the engineers and others at Lotus are clueless idiots? Do you actually think they're evil greedy monsters who are deliberately detuning the engines so they can upgrade them later, and it never occurred to them that people would notice? You guys act like they've never made cars before, never dealt with the public before, and have no experience with engine power and performance.

When Matt says "if you're familiar with how a Lotus drives and handles, you won't be disappointed with the Emira", that should mean something. He's actually been driving the Emira for the past year under the skin of an Evora, so he absolutely knows what they've had, and what they need to do to make the Emira better. They all do. They're replacing the internals of the manual gearbox with their own gears and gearing. They're not using Toyota's or Mercedes' software, they're using their own software and tuning. They're making their own intake and exhaust. There's more to performance than simple engine bhp, and every one of them knows it, which is why they're working on all of it as a complete system; intake, engine, software and tuning, exhaust and gearing, to make the Emira be the best Lotus they've ever made, which includes comparing it to the cars they've made in the past. They know people are going to make that comparison; they themselves have been making that comparison the whole time while developing the Emira. If you don't believe they know what they're doing, then buy something else. They're not some nefarious, underhanded corporation trying to rip people off and fleece them for every cent they can.

If you can't be patient and give them a chance to show what they can do when they finally reveal a production spec car, if you're just overwhelmed with horror and disgust because the published bhp listed is less than you like, then by all means retrieve your deposit and go buy something else. You don't have to do this if it's going to make you that unhappy.
 

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Some of you people amaze me. Do you really think that Russel Carr, Gavan Kershaw, Matt Windle, the engineers and others at Lotus are clueless idiots? Do you actually think they're evil greedy monsters who are deliberately detuning the engines so they can upgrade them later, and it never occurred to them that people would notice? You guys act like they've never made cars before, never dealt with the public before, and have no experience with engine power and performance.

When Matt says "if you're familiar with how a Lotus drives and handles, you won't be disappointed with the Emira", that should mean something. He's actually been driving the Emira for the past year under the skin of an Evora, so he absolutely knows what they've had, and what they need to do to make the Emira better. They all do. They're replacing the internals of the manual gearbox with their own gears and gearing. They're not using Toyota's or Mercedes' software, they're using their own software and tuning. They're making their own intake and exhaust. There's more to performance than simple engine bhp, and every one of them knows it, which is why they're working on all of it as a complete system; intake, engine, software and tuning, exhaust and gearing, to make the Emira be the best Lotus they've ever made, which includes comparing it to the cars they've made in the past. They know people are going to make that comparison; they themselves have been making that comparison the whole time while developing the Emira. If you don't believe they know what they're doing, then buy something else. They're not some nefarious, underhanded corporation trying to rip people off and fleece them for every cent they can.

If you can't be patient and give them a chance to show what they can do when they finally reveal a production spec car, if you're just overwhelmed with horror and disgust because the published bhp listed is less than you like, then by all means retrieve your deposit and go buy something else. You don't have to do this if it's going to make you that unhappy.
You like to keep putting words in the mouth of people who don't subscribe to your narrative. It feels like you'll attack any post that dares to question anything about the Emira or the marque, which I guess we should assume from your posts will be the perfect car, from the perfect company(?) Lotus knows better than the rest of us and the industry, yes?

But more than anything, your arguments usually set up Straw Men, and you mischaracterize if not flat-out ignore the spirit and the points of the arguments made (so you can then knock the straw men down). Here's an informative article so you can learn more about the technique you are employing, whether intentional or not: https://effectiviology.com/straw-man-arguments-recognize-counter-use/
 

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You like to keep putting words in the mouth of people who don't subscribe to your narrative. You're there to attack anyone who dares to question anything about the Emira or the marque, which I guess we should assume from your posts will be the perfect car, from the perfect company? Lotus knows better than the rest of us and the industry, yes?

But more than anything, your arguments usually set up Straw Men, and you mischaracterize if not flat-out ignore the spirit and the points of the arguments made (so you can then knock the straw men down). Here's an informative article so you can learn more about the technique you are employing, whether intentional or not: https://effectiviology.com/straw-man-arguments-recognize-counter-use/

I'm not going to argue in detail with someone who will just keep inventing the people they are arguing with. But to take a page from your book: if you don't like people expressing concerns or criticisms about anything regarding the Emira or Lotus the company, or if it otherwise makes you unhappy to hear facts or arguments that run counter to your viewpoint/image, you are free to leave the forum!

Not that I think you'd do that for a second of course, I'm just taking a page from your book. I honestly think you bring a lot to the forum when it's not about being the self-appointed "Defender of Lotus & the Emira" :).
I'm not inventing anybody. I'm not mentioning names because I'm trying to be civil and not making it personal, in the hopes that some of those "straw men" you seem to think I've invented will get the message and realize what they're doing. There's also the matter of it being against forum rules to single out and attack people in such a manner. I put things generically to avoid that. If you're feeling hot under the collar and yelling ouch because of what I wrote, maybe you should check to see if there isn't some straw in your pockets.

I guess you don't seem to notice the negative words often being used to describe what people perceive Lotus is doing, which of course is a direct disparagement of the people at Lotus. You, like others, only see things from your perspective and what you want. You're not thinking about the people at Lotus, what their responsibilities and pressures are, or what their perspective might be. I've worked in a company that designs and manufacturers products, and I dealt with customer attitudes daily. The "straw men" as you put it are typically being set up by people who for whatever reason, are unhappy either with the product or the company, and their "questioning" of the company and its motives are always demeaning and insulting. They always seem to think they are vastly smarter, wiser, and more capable than the people at the company who make whatever it is their criticizing. They pretend they know so much more, and if only the people who make the products were as smart as they are, then it would be so easy to make the product be what they think it should be.

They have absolutely no clue how much work, time and effort are involved in designing and making products in today's heavily regulated world. I'm not ignoring the "spirit and the points" of the arguments made, quite the contrary. I'm pointing out that the people making them seriously don't realize what they're saying. I don't think any of us can imagine how much time, effort, work, lost sleep, antacid tablets, coffee, tea or whatever went into the people who have the talent, skill and ambition to start with a pencil and a piece of paper, and make something like the Emira. Those of you criticizing, seem to think it's so easy, so why didn't Lotus do what you think is so easy to do? Probably because it ISN'T easy. Does Lotus know better than the rest of you how to make an Emira? The answer is a resounding yes. Of course they do, because they've done it, and you haven't. Do they know better than the rest of the industry? Possibly; which is why they're often consulted by the rest of the industry on chassis and handling development. Has anybody else produced anything that looks like the Emira for under $100k? Not that I've seen, or a lot of people have seen which is why it's getting so much attention. Of course they're not the perfect company, and the Emira isn't a perfect car. Customers aren't the perfect consumers, and critics aren't the perfect all-wise, and all-knowing critics either. As everybody knows, nobody is perfect. So why criticize and complain about them and what they're doing as though you expect them to be? There's a difference between constructive observation and suggestion, and being insulting. I don't like how the configurator is mis-representing the colors of the car. Do I automatically assume it's because they're stupid and incompetent? No, nor do I say such. I assume positive intent. Nor did I simply complain, over and over. I made my observations in the forum, but I then went to the trouble of putting together what I could that might help them improve it, and I sent that in to them. I did so politely, respectfully, and in a positive, civil manner.

Could Lotus build the exact car you all want? Yes, of course they could, but it sure wouldn't be under $100k. If you know how they can do what you think is easy to do, put it together as a proposal and send it in to them. I've found they're very receptive. They're not bad people. They're not stupid, lazy or incompetent. If anyone thinks they can do better, tell them how they can do it. They're people, just like us. Treat them as you would have them treat you, if you were there working on this project.

As far as me not liking people "expressing concerns or criticisms about anything regarding the Emira or Lotus the company", why would I leave the forum? I'll do what I've already had to do with a couple of people in here; put them on ignore. My "viewpoint/image" is that the people at Lotus are just that; people, and I care about them as people. I appreciate and recognize the amount of work they've had to have put in to make the Emira, and I'm not going to do or say something to make them feel bad because there's something about it that isn't perfect as I think it should or could be. I think what they've done is pretty impressive, and I appreciate it. If there's something that can be improved, I'll tell them as an ally; not as an accuser or assailant.

There's two viewpoints in all this; yours and theirs. I see precious little effort for people to try and present or understand what their viewpoint might be. If you call that making straw men, then so be it. I call it providing a possible counter explanation that could move someone to the middle where they can see more than their own viewpoint.
 

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As we're still many months away from delivery, and even some current deposits may not result in deliveries until 2023, it might make sense to factor inflation into this equation. Given general inflationary pressures, as well as supply chain concerns, it's not unreasonable to think prices could be 1-3% higher by 2022 and 3-5% higher in 2023.
 

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Exactly. And:
  • There is no emissions equipment (Gas Particulate Filter) to be added to the M139 i4 that would reduce power, GPF's have come stock on the 382hp and 421hp versions from the start.
  • There have been references on the UK Lotus Forums to Lotus personnel admitting privately the 360hp is due to "marketing".
  • An R, S etc i4 is coming with power that exceeds the 400hp+ V6 per Lotus. Heat is clearly NOT a reason for the 360hp detune
Lots of talk here about emissions & avg fleet #'s, with Lotus not having the big commuter fleet to average into. But that ignores several things, including:
  • Euro standards have a niche-manufacturer provision. Those in that niche have reduced requirements. Also note that Lotus could join a Pool of other car manufacturers and be aggregated within those.
  • There is also the ability for manufacturers selling under 10,000 cars/year to apply for a derogation from the emissions target per Article 10 of ER 2019/631 requirements.
  • In the emissions testing cycle, with an average speed of 29mph and a max speed not to exceed 81mph, and with methodology designed to simulate average driving in various urban, suburban etc conditions, how long do you think the M139 engine would be run at max-boost vs. partial boost (vs no boost at all)?
  • The difference between the stock 382hp M139 engine and a de-tune 360hp version is about 2psi more max boost on the 382hp engine, and no hardware changes. With electronic boost control the M139 can also choose what boost it runs for any given RPM (assuming there's enough load to generate max boost). That means it could also run reduced PSI/emissions up until higher rpm... Think on that.
Here's all the extra emissions the 421hp M139 makes vs. the 382hp (or even a 360hp!) version:
  • During cold start: The exact same.
  • During idle, cold day: The exact same.
  • During idle, warm day: The exact same.
  • Highway cruising, be it at 65mph, 75mph, 85mph, or 95mph: The exact same.
  • Urban commuting in traffic: The exact same.
  • Part-throttle acceleration where you aren't going to max boost: The exact same.
  • Under deceleration/braking: The exact same.
  • In every single driving situation you can think of, with the ONLY exception of putting your foot into the throttle hard enough to achieve max boost (and in those situations, how long will you realistically stay in full boost before backing off?): The exact same.
All that, and frankly it still doesn't matter $.01c until we actually hear what the final spec is for the U.S. i4 Emira. I am still hoping for the ~382hp spec in the US. But until then, the only official information we have to go on is what Lotus themselves has published, and so far that has not waivered from 360hp. Which, for whatever reasons it may be, is a detune from Lotus and for many of us a "sad" number for the i4 Emira to debut with in 2023 (US).
Thanks for all this info! The only thing holding me back on the i4 slightly is the pops, snaps and bangs I hear from that engine….Really wish lotus would release some sound clips prior to me being forced to choose…
 

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Some of you people amaze me. Do you really think that Russel Carr, Gavan Kershaw, Matt Windle, the engineers and others at Lotus are clueless idiots? Do you actually think they're evil greedy monsters who are deliberately detuning the engines so they can upgrade them later, and it never occurred to them that people would notice? You guys act like they've never made cars before, never dealt with the public before, and have no experience with engine power and performance.

When Matt says "if you're familiar with how a Lotus drives and handles, you won't be disappointed with the Emira", that should mean something. He's actually been driving the Emira for the past year under the skin of an Evora, so he absolutely knows what they've had, and what they need to do to make the Emira better. They all do. They're replacing the internals of the manual gearbox with their own gears and gearing. They're not using Toyota's or Mercedes' software, they're using their own software and tuning. They're making their own intake and exhaust. There's more to performance than simple engine bhp, and every one of them knows it, which is why they're working on all of it as a complete system; intake, engine, software and tuning, exhaust and gearing, to make the Emira be the best Lotus they've ever made, which includes comparing it to the cars they've made in the past. They know people are going to make that comparison; they themselves have been making that comparison the whole time while developing the Emira. If you don't believe they know what they're doing, then buy something else. They're not some nefarious, underhanded corporation trying to rip people off and fleece them for every cent they can.

If you can't be patient and give them a chance to show what they can do when they finally reveal a production spec car, if you're just overwhelmed with horror and disgust because the published bhp listed is less than you like, then by all means retrieve your deposit and go buy something else. You don't have to do this if it's going to make you that unhappy.
well said. i hope to god they shut up already and take their deposits back so the rest of us can move up the list
 

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Some of you people amaze me. Do you really think that Russel Carr, Gavan Kershaw, Matt Windle, the engineers and others at Lotus are clueless idiots? Do you actually think they're evil greedy monsters who are deliberately detuning the engines so they can upgrade them later, and it never occurred to them that people would notice? You guys act like they've never made cars before, never dealt with the public before, and have no experience with engine power and performance.

When Matt says "if you're familiar with how a Lotus drives and handles, you won't be disappointed with the Emira", that should mean something. He's actually been driving the Emira for the past year under the skin of an Evora, so he absolutely knows what they've had, and what they need to do to make the Emira better. They all do. They're replacing the internals of the manual gearbox with their own gears and gearing. They're not using Toyota's or Mercedes' software, they're using their own software and tuning. They're making their own intake and exhaust. There's more to performance than simple engine bhp, and every one of them knows it, which is why they're working on all of it as a complete system; intake, engine, software and tuning, exhaust and gearing, to make the Emira be the best Lotus they've ever made, which includes comparing it to the cars they've made in the past. They know people are going to make that comparison; they themselves have been making that comparison the whole time while developing the Emira. If you don't believe they know what they're doing, then buy something else. They're not some nefarious, underhanded corporation trying to rip people off and fleece them for every cent they can.

If you can't be patient and give them a chance to show what they can do when they finally reveal a production spec car, if you're just overwhelmed with horror and disgust because the published bhp listed is less than you like, then by all means retrieve your deposit and go buy something else. You don't have to do this if it's going to make you that unhappy.
Very honorable of you to defend the LOTUS and the EMIRA, but you come across as nothing more than a fanboy with blinders on kissing LOTUS asses all day long.

The Emira, like many others needs to be critiqued so the product ( the Emira) evolves into a better product.

The EMIRA as it is now is a great car, with a large amount of deposits, (many of which are first time LOTUS buyers) proving that it is a great success...... so therefore there should be no criticisms or room for improvement ? ridiculous !!

Everyone knows the I4 can make more power than the 360-380hp its spec'ed out on the initial launch......except for YOU ! do everyone a favor and stop defending this.....everyone but YOU realizes that this motor will be tuned to output and produce more power going forward to keep sales advancing as the platform ages.

Defend anything else,..... the pricing, the weight, the dealer network, the marketing, the paint colors, whatever,...BUT please stop defending this I4 motor that obviously was detuned.
 

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If the published spec is correct and will be same for the US spec too, then it looks like the history repeats... Due to the limited engine choices they can have, Lotus starts with a slightly detuned version first, so, there is a room for upgrading the spec in the near future, Lotus can sell some upgraded more powerful versions later.
 

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Very honorable of you to defend the LOTUS and the EMIRA, but you come across as nothing more than a fanboy with blinders on kissing LOTUS asses all day long.

The Emira, like many others needs to be critiqued so the product ( the Emira) evolves into a better product.

The EMIRA as it is now is a great car, with a large amount of deposits, (many of which are first time LOTUS buyers) proving that it is a great success...... so therefore there should be no criticisms or room for improvement ? ridiculous !!

Everyone knows the I4 can make more power than the 360-380hp its spec'ed out on the initial launch......except for YOU ! do everyone a favor and stop defending this.....everyone but YOU realizes that this motor will be tuned to output and produce more power going forward to keep sales advancing as the platform ages.

Defend anything else,..... the pricing, the weight, the dealer network, the marketing, the paint colors, whatever,...BUT please stop defending this I4 motor that obviously was detuned.
Lol I'm not at all surprised you'd have this reaction, as you're one of the most petulant in here. How many times do you need to say the engine can make more power? How many times do you need to flame Lotus for "detuning" it as you claim? Now be honest; why do you think they're saying it's only going to have 360 hp when "everyone knows" which obviously would include them, that it can make more power than that? What's your explanation?
 

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Lol I'm not at all surprised you'd have this reaction, as you're one of the most petulant in here. How many times do you need to say the engine can make more power? How many times do you need to flame Lotus for "detuning" it as you claim? Now be honest; why do you think they're saying it's only going to have 360 hp when "everyone knows" which obviously would include them, that it can make more power than that? What's your explanation?
Why would I just repeat what has already been argued several times over and over already ? The reasoning and justifications have already been presented. I would be just reiterating what has already been debated several times.
I am NOT going to convince you. It will never happen. Your position is cemented and unwavering. You are not budging, and that's OK, we know you will defend this reduced output of the I4 engine without question for eternity, even as many are betting and speculating that the power will increase over the years to prop up sales.

Debate is used to volley ideas and suggestions back and forth with others who are not blindly in love with LOTUS.....open to different ideas, data, and points of view or opinions.....BTW, please point out even one previous post of yours criticizing ANY thing about the Emira.....anything.....paint colors, options, pricing, production volume, marketing, anything.....it dosen't exist.... because you are the biggest LOTUS ass-kisser and Cheerleader on this forum.

Now YOU be honest, why are you NOT questioning LOTUS , but instead defending them regarding this I4 engine ?
 

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Some of you people amaze me. Do you really think that Russel Carr, Gavan Kershaw, Matt Windle, the engineers and others at Lotus are clueless idiots? Do you actually think they're evil greedy monsters who are deliberately detuning the engines so they can upgrade them later, and it never occurred to them that people would notice?
No they are NOT clueless idiots, they are very smart to detune the I4 engine to leave room for HP upgrades going forward. They are NOT greedy monsters, they are major decision makers at a hugely capital intensive manufacturing business that smartly know that because they are NOT manufacturing either engine for the Emira, ( and are limited to what they are given regarding power plants ) that they need to keep some horsepower off the table for the future to keep sales up going forward.

And we as consumers, knowing this, are obviously not happy with this marketing decision.
 

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Call me naive but I am skeptical that Lotus would detune the I4 specifically so they can upgrade later. That would be a pretty petty move. More likely there is a packaging/heat dissipation issue, a cost issue, a licensing issue vis a vis AMG, or any multitude of more reasonable explanations. In the end, it doesn’t really matter. The 360 is what is offered for sale and no amount of whining is going to change that. If prospective buyers walk, well maybe that will do something but I think it’s unlikely the first gen base I4 specs are going to change anytime soon,
 

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Why would I just repeat what has already been argued several times over and over already ? The reasoning and justifications have already been presented. I would be just reiterating what has already been debated several times.
I am NOT going to convince you. It will never happen. Your position is cemented and unwavering. You are not budging, and that's OK, we know you will defend this reduced output of the I4 engine without question for eternity, even as many are betting and speculating that the power will increase over the years to prop up sales.

Debate is used to volley ideas and suggestions back and forth with others who are not blindly in love with LOTUS.....open to different ideas, data, and points of view or opinions.....BTW, please point out even one previous post of yours criticizing ANY thing about the Emira.....anything.....paint colors, options, pricing, production volume, marketing, anything.....it dosen't exist.... because you are the biggest LOTUS ass-kisser and Cheerleader on this forum.

Now YOU be honest, why are you NOT questioning LOTUS , but instead defending them regarding this I4 engine ?
That is precisely the problem; repeating over and over again the same complaint, as though they don't know, and don't 'get it'. Considering the number of contradictions we've seen in print from their marketing team, I'm saying it may be premature to judge what the engine is going to do. You refuse to accept that what's in print may be different when we see a final production spec car. YOUR position is cemented and unwavering. I'm waiting until we see the final result before deciding what to think about it. I also understand there's more to performance than brake horsepower which is what you seem to be exclusively fixated on. I've pointed out the entire system of all their working on to improve performance, which can have a significant effect beyond engine hp. I'm not going to judge it at this time because we haven't even seen a running i4 car yet.

IF the final engine is detuned, then I'm willing to consider that they might have had a very good reason for doing so, and it might not be a marketing ploy. We all know ICE is going away, and they're already showing at least 3 more vehicles they're currently working on which are electric, because the Emira is their LAST ICE car, so I don't expect they have this big plan to milk sales for it into the future. When those hp numbers were originally published, they had no idea how the response would be to the car. I doubt they ever dreamed they might need 2 or 3 production shifts. Now that they know, things might change. We have to wait and see, but they've made it clear they're already moving onto electric. As a result, I don't see them investing a whole lot more into ICE. Matt said they're getting into GT4 racing next year, but nobody that I've seen or heard from Lotus, is talking about a big future with ICE development and production. It's all electric.

I have no problem with different ideas, data, and points of view or opinions, unless they're hurled with vitriol and words like "moron", etc. My reaction depends entirely on how they're presented.

I guess you haven't noticed my criticisms of the paint colors, and the difference between what the configurator shows, and what we're seeing on the samples people have taken pictures of. I've posted composite images of the samples on top of the configurator image to show how far off the samples are. I've pulled color samples from a paint company to show Lotus that there are paints that are very close to the configurator color, which is the color that a large number of depositers have indicated they want. I've sent letters in to respectfully request they fix this, because it's very difficult to make a $100k decision about something as important as car color, when we aren't being given accurate information. That's been recently. You probably don't remember it because I wasn't screaming about it dramatically. I just recently created an alternative image of the Emira badge for the side of the car, because I don't think the one that's being shown is as good as it could be. I don't just criticize and complain; I try and offer something of value to help make things better if I can.

Have you sent any letters or communications into Lotus, to let them know what you see as their failure to do what you think should be done? Have you offered anything constructive?

Oh, and I've also sent in letters about the dealer network issue, and included some demographic info to support adding a dealer in the Pacific Northwest, of the U.S. as there's nothing between Seattle and Las Vegas. That's a problem, but I don't beat them up and berate them over it in the forum over and over.

To answer your last question, I'm waiting until we see an actual car with that engine in it, so we can see what those who are able to see it and either ride in or drive it have to say.
 
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