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No they are NOT clueless idiots, they are very smart to detune the I4 engine to leave room for HP upgrades going forward. They are NOT greedy monsters, they are major decision makers at a hugely capital intensive manufacturing business that smartly know that because they are NOT manufacturing either engine for the Emira, ( and are limited to what they are given regarding power plants ) that they need to keep some horsepower off the table for the future to keep sales up going forward.

And we as consumers, knowing this, are obviously not happy with this marketing decision.
I don't accept that as being true or "smart" at this point. That was the old Lotus, this new one is a very different company, with much bigger ambitions. They're not stuck making 40 cars a week because that's all they can produce. I'm willing to wait and see what they actually do, before deciding what it is or isn't, and what to think about it.
 

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That is precisely the problem; repeating over and over again the same complaint, as though they don't know, and don't 'get it'. Considering the number of contradictions we've seen in print from their marketing team, I'm saying it may be premature to judge what the engine is going to do. You refuse to accept that what's in print may be different when we see a final production spec car. YOUR position is cemented and unwavering. I'm waiting until we see the final result before deciding what to think about it. I also understand there's more to performance than brake horsepower which is what you seem to be exclusively fixated on. I've pointed out the entire system of all their working on to improve performance, which can have a significant effect beyond engine hp. I'm not going to judge it at this time because we haven't even seen a running i4 car yet.

IF the final engine is detuned, then I'm willing to consider that they might have had a very good reason for doing so, and it might not be a marketing ploy. We all know ICE is going away, and they're already showing at least 3 more vehicles they're currently working on which are electric, because the Emira is their LAST ICE car, so I don't expect they have this big plan to milk sales for it into the future. When those hp numbers were originally published, they had no idea how the response would be to the car. I doubt they ever dreamed they might need 2 or 3 production shifts. Now that they know, things might change. We have to wait and see, but they've made it clear they're already moving onto electric. As a result, I don't see them investing a whole lot more into ICE. Matt said they're getting into GT4 racing next year, but nobody that I've seen or heard from Lotus, is talking about a big future with ICE development and production. It's all electric.

I have no problem with different ideas, data, and points of view or opinions, unless they're hurled with vitriol and words like "moron", etc. My reaction depends entirely on how they're presented.

I guess you haven't noticed my criticisms of the paint colors, and the difference between what the configurator shows, and what we're seeing on the samples people have taken pictures of. I've posted composite images of the samples on top of the configurator image to show how far off the samples are. I've pulled color samples from a paint company to show Lotus that there are paints that are very close to the configurator color, which is the color that a large number of depositers have indicated they want. I've sent letters in to respectfully request they fix this, because it's very difficult to make a $100k decision about something as important as car color, when we aren't being given accurate information. That's been recently. You probably don't remember it because I wasn't screaming about it dramatically. I just recently created an alternative image of the Emira badge for the side of the car, because I don't think the one that's being shown is as good as it could be. I don't just criticize and complain; I try and offer something of value to help make things better if I can.

Have you sent any letters or communications into Lotus, to let them know what you see as their failure to do what you think should be done? Have you offered anything constructive?

Oh, and I've also sent in letters about the dealer network issue, and included some demographic info to support adding a dealer in the Pacific Northwest, of the U.S. as there's nothing between Seattle and Las Vegas. That's a problem, but I don't beat them up and berate them over it in the forum over and over.

To answer your last question, I'm waiting until we see an actual car with that engine in it, so we can see what those who are able to see it and either ride in or drive it have to say.
I never called you or anyone else a moron.
 

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I don't accept that as being true or "smart" at this point. That was the old Lotus, this new one is a very different company, with much bigger ambitions. They're not stuck making 40 cars a week because that's all they can produce. I'm willing to wait and see what they actually do, before deciding what it is or isn't, and what to think about it.
unlike you, I have already decided what to think about it, and I think it sucks.......they released the specs of the engine(s), so no more speculation is necessary. It sucks, period.

possibly some sport car consumers are like you and prefer and feel it more desirable to have LESS horsepower in any given platform or car.....NOT me, thank you very much.
 

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I never called you or anyone else a moron.
Remember this just a few days ago?

...The EMIRA looks finished both inside and outside. AND, the dual clutch with the I-4 is absolutely high tech and an excellent partnership choice, bringing an engine with great performance and top shelf name recognition and status being an AMG product .....EXCEPT for the brain dead, village idiot, moronic dope that thought it would be smart to detune the engine. There needs to be mandatory drug testing for those in the marketing dept who thought it would be smart to launch with a detuned I4 engine. Someone in marketing is smoking crack cocaine in the company bathroom.
...
 

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unlike you, I have already decided what to think about it, and I think it sucks.......they released the specs of the engine(s), so no more speculation is necessary. It sucks, period.

possibly some sport car consumers are like you and prefer and feel it more desirable to have LESS horsepower in any given platform or car.....NOT me.
Are you aware that even though the marketing literature for the V6 says 400 hp, Matt Windle said it has 416 hp? That right there means it's possible that the 360 hp in the marketing literature for the i4 may also be lower than what it will actually have. That means we should probably wait and see what they finally deliver before deciding what it is or isn't. BTW, that's a criticism of the inconsistency of what the marketing department is issuing as opposed to what the people who are in charge are saying. See? It can be done without being insulting.
 

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Are you aware that even though the marketing literature for the V6 says 400 hp, Matt Windle said it has 416 hp? That right there means it's possible that the 360 hp in the marketing literature for the i4 may also be lower than what it will actually have. That means we should probably wait and see what they finally deliver before deciding what it is or isn't. BTW, that's a criticism of the inconsistency of what the marketing department is issuing as opposed to what the people who are in charge are saying. See? It can be done without being insulting.
What you are doing is pointing out is an inconsistency, thats human error. It happens to everyone. No biggie..... but Its NOT human error to offer an engine detuned, thats intentional, and not something that got somehow overlooked or done by mistake.

Like I said, you are welcome to wait, I have made my mind up... and it sucks. If the engine has 380hp it still sucks. It should have the full 415hp that it can already provide. Please, no more "reasons" or "excuses" why the engine can only make 360-380hp in the EMIRA.

again......it sucks, period.
 

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READ OVER AGAIN CARFULLY..... I Called some anonymous person, entity, board of directors, etc .... a moron, NEVER YOU, NEVER ANYONE on this forum.

I stand by my statement
I didn't think you'd have the integrity to 'fess up to what you did.

Here it is again, nothing was mentioned about anybody on the forum. You said and I quote "I never called you or ANYONE ELSE a moron." Emphasis mine.
I never called you or anyone else a moron.
Yeah you did. So rather than continue to dig the hole deeper you're standing in, it might be a good idea to stop and realize that you are saying things about people without possibly even realizing it. Take it as a learning opportunity for personal growth. At this point, I'm no longer interested in discussing this with you. Once you show someone in black and white print what they said, and they try and deny and spin their way out of it, there's no longer any basis for a conversation.
 

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I didn't think you'd have the integrity to 'fess up to what you did.

Here it is again, nothing was mentioned about anybody on the forum. You said and I quote "I never called you or ANYONE ELSE a moron." Emphasis mine.

Yeah you did. So rather than continue to dig the hole deeper you're standing in, it might be a good idea to stop and realize that you are saying things about people without possibly even realizing it. Take it as a learning opportunity for personal growth. At this point, I'm no longer interested in discussing this with you. Once you show someone in black and white print what they said, and they try and deny and spin their way out of it, there's no longer any basis for a conversation.
Oh thank goodness, I was wondering when you were going to QUIT, give up, throw in the towel, raise a white flag, etc..... and BTW, speaking of personal growth....learn to have a sense of humor....or did you really think that i really meant it when I said LOTUS employee's are smoking crack in the bathroom and LOTUS needs mandatory drug testing, and this is why the engine was apparently "detuned" in my opinion ?

I didn't know you were that sensitive....feelings hurt ?
 

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Thanks for all this info! The only thing holding me back on the i4 slightly is the pops, snaps and bangs I hear from that engine….Really wish lotus would release some sound clips prior to me being forced to choose…
I'm optimistic on this, actually. The string of crackle noises when letting off the gas seems mainly engineered. I'll take a page out of Eagle7's book actually and say "I trust Lotus will make the right tuning decisions here." :). I can't imagine Lotus would feel any better about including low-class artificial over-amp'ed exhaust pops than they would about pumping fake engine sound into the cabin via speakers...

Side note, I'm not responding/contributing further regarding the I4/Eagle debate. I think everyone's presented their points and no one is changing anyone's minds. Eagle & I may discuss a couple points further privately though :).
 

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I'm optimistic on this, actually. The string of crackle noises when letting off the gas seems mainly engineered. I'll take a page out of Eagle7's book actually and say "I trust Lotus will make the right tuning decisions here." :). I can't imagine Lotus would feel any better about including low-class artificial over-amp'ed exhaust pops than they would about pumping fake engine sound into the cabin via speakers...

Side note, I'm not responding/contributing further regarding the I4/Eagle debate. I think everyone's presented their points and no one is changing anyone's minds. Eagle & I may discuss a couple points further privately though :).
I mean...I love the sound of the exige/elise. Think they did a great job making that thing sound good, but think they rather new to turbos.....right?
 

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Any team that can write their own ECU software (which is not trivial btw), can design and make their own intakes and exhaust, can design and make their own internals for a transmission, especially a team with the pedigree that Lotus has... I have confidence they'll make the AMG engine/DCT combo a good experience in the Emira. I respect their willingness to put this kind of effort in on this at this stage, as it's an end of an era not only for them, but the automotive world as we've known it. The electric world that's coming is going to have its own teething problems. I imagine there'll be those images of the electric car who's owner is being rescued by the gas powered car, just as there were of horses being hitched to the Ford that had run out of gas, and needed to be rescued when automobiles first began to appear. It isn't often one gets to live through a world sea change such as this. This will be the second one of this century; the iPhone being the first that changed how the world functions.

It looks like the Alfa Romeo Giulia is Alfa's last ICE car too based on what I'm reading from Stellantis, so having the last ICE Alfa, and the last ICE Lotus in my garage will make for a very nice representative pair of "the way it used to be".
 

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Any team that can write their own ECU software (which is not trivial btw), can design and make their own intakes and exhaust, can design and make their own internals for a transmission, especially a team with the pedigree that Lotus has... I have confidence they'll make the AMG engine/DCT combo a good experience in the Emira. I respect their willingness to put this kind of effort in on this at this stage, as it's an end of an era not only for them, but the automotive world as we've known it. The electric world that's coming is going to have its own teething problems. I imagine there'll be those images of the electric car who's owner is being rescued by the gas powered car, just as there were of horses being hitched to the Ford that had run out of gas, and needed to be rescued when automobiles first began to appear. It isn't often one gets to live through a world sea change such as this. This will be the second one of this century; the iPhone being the first that changed how the world functions.

It looks like the Alfa Romeo Giulia is Alfa's last ICE car too based on what I'm reading from Stellantis, so having the last ICE Alfa, and the last ICE Lotus in my garage will make for a very nice representative pair of "the way it used to be".
Listen. It's too early for me to cry.
 

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Any team that can write their own ECU software (which is not trivial btw)
You keep saying this, except it's not true. They don't write the "ECU software" the OEM provides that. If they make customizations they're minimal and typically those requirements are sent to the OEM anyway. They do ECU tuning, which isn't that complex. The complex parts are the edge cases.

In the case of the V6, that engine has been in development for over 10-years and the AMG i4 will come with base parameters from Mercedes. Let's stop inflating how complex certain things are. Maybe they're complex to you, but not to someone who works in that field. For reference, my friend used to be an ECU tuner for a major manufacturer.
 

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Yes the OEM provides whatever software comes in the ECU, but Lotus said they do their own. Since I've worked with someone who does Alfa tuning, it sure didn't look easy to me. Yes they have experience with the V6, but the regulations and requirements they have to meet get tougher and tougher each year, so they have to figure out how to maintain or improve performance and still meet the new regulations. Gavan himself said they've been working hard on everything in order to meet those new regulation requirements. Let's stop down-playing what it takes to build a new car like the Emira as though performance is easy, so it should be easy for them to do what people think should be done, and yet still meet the ever-tightening government regulations. It took the Corvette team about 14 years to get the C8 to the point of being able to sell it, which is why it is what it is today. It's not easy, by any means, and I appreciate and respect the people who can do that.

I don't know who your friend is, or what manufacturer he worked for, or what ECU he wrote for, or when. Maybe he was/is smarter, more talented and skilled than you give him credit for lol.
 

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You keep saying this, except it's not true. They don't write the "ECU software" the OEM provides that. If they make customizations they're minimal and typically those requirements are sent to the OEM anyway. They do ECU tuning, which isn't that complex. The complex parts are the edge cases.

In the case of the V6, that engine has been in development for over 10-years and the AMG i4 will come with base parameters from Mercedes. Let's stop inflating how complex certain things are. Maybe they're complex to you, but not to someone who works in that field. For reference, my friend used to be an ECU tuner for a major manufacturer.
Lol, exactly. If I would have the option to pay $3000+ to simply keep the Mercedes ECU tune as-is and not touch that or the encryption settings, I'd only ask what forms of payment they take and "would end of the day" be fine? :) Mercedes doesn't make it near-impossible for the aftermarket to tune the ECU. The aftermarket can tone down the stock Mercedes pops, give us back some HP, plus make the engine work better if a freer-flowing aftermarket exhaust system is added.

Porterror, some of the Lotus Esprits had turbo 4's and 8's, but that's mainly academic considering how long ago that was. With turbo engines, they inherently don't sound nearly as good as NA or SC'ed because a turbo engine config has a big heavy housing with a turbine wheel that the exhaust gases all have to funnel/pass through which removes a lot of the best sound. Add the modern wrinkle of GPF filters (basically like adding an additional catalytic converter) and more muffling occurs on top of that. And the i4's found in cars are generally not the best sounding to begin with IMO :).

I've gotten ahead of this issue already however. I've booked this guy to ride shotgun with me on weekends for 2023.

 

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You keep saying this, except it's not true. They don't write the "ECU software" the OEM provides that. If they make customizations they're minimal and typically those requirements are sent to the OEM anyway. They do ECU tuning, which isn't that complex. The complex parts are the edge cases.

In the case of the V6, that engine has been in development for over 10-years and the AMG i4 will come with base parameters from Mercedes. Let's stop inflating how complex certain things are. Maybe they're complex to you, but not to someone who works in that field. For reference, my friend used to be an ECU tuner for a major manufacturer.
It's Lotus encryption of the tune that is the hurdle for all. Each model has been encrypted tighter than previous models. Time will tell, most won't want to risk having Lotus void their powertrain warranty so it will be a few years down the road before we know more than guesses.
 

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It's Lotus encryption of the tune that is the hurdle for all. Each model has been encrypted tighter than previous models. Time will tell, most won't want to risk having Lotus void their powertrain warranty so it will be a few years down the road before we know more than guesses.
We're discussing how hard it is for Lotus, not for us ;)
 

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We're discussing how hard it is for Lotus, not for us ;)
Sorry I thought it was along the lines of people thinking they can just throw a tune on a Lotus.
 
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