[NoFear99]

Enzo Ferrari said, when you buy a Ferrari, you buy the engine and you get the rest of the car for free.

With a Lotus, you buy the chassis and the handling dynamics. The rest of the car is free. Can we just STOP comparing a Lotus to mass produced German cars!

If you want Lotus to survive they need to compete with Porsche and other mass produced cars brand.

They are themselfe saying they want to grab some Cayman and C8 customers with the Emira.

The average car guys enthousiast is the targeted customer just like the Elise and the Exige was not the rich and fortunate Ferrari's lambo's customers. Those will continue to buy 300K-500K cars to proudly show their standing level.

They are not attacking Ferrari with the Emira. Your philosophy / vision do not apply here.

The way you are thinking about Lotus is already dead.

Geely did not buy Lotus to have the same bussiness plan marketing strategy position into the market as before.

If you always do and think the same ; the results arent going to change either.

Did you miss the chapter where Lotus have been purchased several time in the past because they are not profitable ?

Would you continue to operate your own bussiness just for the pleasure to continue to be a small niche special company but not really making monney ?

Volume is the key today and to get volume you need to mass produce like Porsche does period no matter if you like it or not. Who better placed than a chinese group to know that.

 

[NoFear99]

but, free healthcare! haha.

Yes but the public health care is bad. Most people with some monney go to private health care anyhow to get good and better services.

I would gladly prefer if my income tax was twice less expensive and pay for a good health care insurance for the family at 300$ per month and being treat like a customers when I go to the hospital instead to be considered as a numbers.

Everytime we have been to a clinic in Florida we always had fast and very good services response. Here we have to wait 8 to 12 hours to see a doctor at the emergency and if you take an appointment with your own family doctor you will need 4 to 6 weeks before to be able to do so.

 

[Nova]

Here in Canada, our income are not 30% higher than those in the States but the price of the car is 30% higher while every other car brand price their cars in Canada 15-16% more than the US price. The tax on our income for an average salary are between 30% to 45%. Also my sales tax is 15% while in Florida it is 7% for example. The life cost is as much expensive here if not higher because of our hard winter ( high electric bill, winters tires, winter clothes and many more ) grocery cost is pretty much the same, our gas is more expensive, so at the end our purchasing power is hardly hit.

In USA the Emira will cost to the door including taxs and destination charge 103-105K while mine is going to cost 145K.

Gotta pay for your "free" social benefits like universal healthcare somehow.

 

[Octonion]

They are themselfe saying they want to grab some Cayman and C8 customers with the Emira.

Show me where please.

 

[porterror]

Yes but the public health care is bad. Most people with some monney go to private health care anyhow to get good and better services.

I would gladly prefer if my income tax was twice less expensive and pay for a good health care insurance for the family at 300$ per month and being treat like a customers when I go to the hospital instead to be considered as a numbers.

Everytime we have been to a clinic in Florida we always had fast and very good services response. Here we have to wait 8 to 12 hours to see a doctor at the emergency and if you take an appointment with your own family doctor you will need 4 to 6 weeks before to be able to do so.

Sorry the sarcasm doesn't come across well. Wife treats hockey players in the states who come down from Canada for healthcare. Most Americans are clueless to this...

 

[idleuser]

The price is the price.. buy a c8 or gts/gt4. I also want a Manual 911 GT3 .. but I can't afford it, it doesn't mean it's not priced accordingly. If the alternative is so attractive then when haven't you bought either a C8 or GTS? I'm pretty sure you all agree looks of the car play a major role.

 

[Eagle7]

If people are worried about the value proposition, just get a C8. Chevy nailed it in that regard. Best bang for the buck out there for a mid-engine performance car. The Emira is going to look better than anything else in its price range, or even quite a few above its price range. It's probably going to handle better, and has a manual trans. You're not going to find anything else like it under $100k, period. Buy it for what it is, because honestly there's really nothing else out there to compare it to because it's not just another car. Price isn't the best comparison. If price is your main focus, get something else.

 

[NoFear99]

Show me where please.

I will try to find the article again just for you and will link it later for sure.

Is it possible that I may have read a lot more on the subject than you ?

 

[NoFear99]

If people are worried about the value proposition, just get a C8. Chevy nailed it in that regard. Best bang for the buck out there for a mid-engine performance car. The Emira is going to look better than anything else in its price range, or even quite a few above its price range. It's probably going to handle better, and has a manual trans. You're not going to find anything else like it under $100k, period. Buy it for what it is, because honestly there's really nothing else out there to compare it to because it's not just another car. Price isn't the best comparison. If price is your main focus, get something else.

If my total bill to get the car was 100-105K just like you I wouldnt mind just like you. If the Emira would cost you 145KUS maybe your speech would be quite different.

I am not a Porsche guys and not a Corvette fan either. I try very hard as much as I can everyday to convince my father to do not change his Ferrari Modena for the C8.

 

[brgelise]

If people are worried about the value proposition, just get a C8. Chevy nailed it in that regard. Best bang for the buck out there for a mid-engine performance car. The Emira is going to look better than anything else in its price range, or even quite a few above its price range. It's probably going to handle better, and has a manual trans. You're not going to find anything else like it under $100k, period. Buy it for what it is, because honestly there's really nothing else out there to compare it to because it's not just another car. Price isn't the best comparison. If price is your main focus, get something else.

At 3000lbs, I'd be shopping a highly optioned C8. Unfortunately , America can't compete in the lithe and agility dept. They prefer to bludgeon tar with HP.

 

[NoFear99]

Show me where please.

There you go my friend.

Lotus targets U.S. buyers with Emira's 'user-friendly' features

The UK sports-car maker is targeting overall annual sales of 5,000 vehicles under its revival plan, and it wants a third of that volume to come from the U.S.

europe.autonews.com

Clare cited the base-spec Chevrolet Corvette as one rival for the Emira, along with European competition such as the Jaguar F-type, Porsche Cayman and BMW Z4.

Simon Clare, head of marketing for Lotus

 

[SpyderBite]

Perhaps my view is oversimplified, but I feel like the Cayman/C8/Pricing discussions often don't see the forest for the trees. My simple caveman view is this:

1) Buyer likes Porsches? If Buyer doesn't care that everyone drives one and they all "look the same", then Buyer skips Emira and buys the Porsche. Porsche's drive excellently, price is close enough, quality is unquestionable, dealer network is incomparable.

2) Buyer likes C8? If Buyer doesn't care that everyone drives one, and doesn't yet understand the importance of the nuances of finer driving (in particular) and interior/exterior styling, then Buyer skips Emira and buys the C8. It's less expensive and makes better numbers and dealer network is incomparable.

3) All others: Buyer see Emira. Emira look GOOD. Holy crap it looks good! Buyer want now!! If Buyer can afford and there's a dealer close by enough for service, Buyer may buy. If buyer understands nuances of finer driving, they will cackle, rub hands and bounce up and down while awaiting order. If buyer doesn't understand, they will learn to appreciate once they own the car -- and a new driving enthusiast is born. If Lotus ends up at the service dept a lot, new buyer says "Lotus - never again".

The end.

Gotta run!!! Deer just trotted by outside. Must go run it down and drop it with 1 swift blow to the forehead. HONEY, here comes dinner plus shoes & jackets for the kids!!!

 

[Semitone]

Hey..I guess I missed something. Have they even announced the Emira pricing in Canada or is all of this preemptive whining?

 

[EspritGuy]

Enzo Ferrari said, when you buy a Ferrari, you buy the engine and you get the rest of the car for free.

With a Lotus, you buy the chassis and the handling dynamics. The rest of the car is free. Can we just STOP comparing a Lotus to mass produced German cars!

Awesome observation!

 

[NoFear99]

At 3000lbs, I'd be shopping a highly optioned C8. Unfortunately , America can't compete in the lithe and agility dept. They prefer to bludgeon tar with HP.

If I was into a quest for horsepower and speed , I would buy this just like my neighbor got last week but have zero interest for american car. 760HP for 100.5K.

 

[Eagle7]

At 3000lbs, I'd be shopping a highly optioned C8. Unfortunately , America can't compete in the lithe and agility dept. They prefer to bludgeon tar with HP.

This is precisely the point. The Emira offers something that nothing else does under $100k.

American cars never had to compete in the lithe and agility department because the manufacturers, Chevy and Ford in particular, always had gobs of power available and cheap gas to fuel it. Need more performance? Just increase the displacement of those small block V8s, doesn't matter if they only get 12 mpg because gas in the U.S. is 30 cents a gallon. At that time, post-war Europe was still working on recovering from the effects of WW2, so they didn't have big engines, and gas was a LOT more expensive over there. For them, the way to improve performance was through chassis development, lightness, higher revving small displacement engines, and 5 speed transmissions to make up for lack of power and torque with gearing. Necessity was the driver of their invention. In America, cars were big, heavy, and had 3 speed transmissions because that was all they needed. The V8 was their savior for performance. Lots of low rpm torque and power.

In recent years American manufacturers have improved the handling quotient dramatically; especially Chevy. The Camaro ZL1 1LE is the finest sports GT America has ever produced. It's no longer just a muscle car. The C8 shows Chevy's prowess in taking that tried and true formula to a mid-engine car. For bang for the buck, you really can't beat either one of those cars. They're raw, brash, powerful. They're also somewhat heavy, especially optioned-out.

The Emira is a completely different animal. It's not going to be as fast in a straight line as the Chevy's. Not going to have the same torque or grunt off the line. Once you get going however, you'll quickly see the difference between a rodeo bronco rider, and a thoroughbred equestrian. Not as loud, not as dramatic, refined, elegant, precise, smooth. It's just a higher order of automotive performance, taking into account more than raw power. That's why the Emira costs what it does. If that's what you're interested in, the Emira is a bargain. If not, it's too expensive compared to other cars.

 

[NoFear99]

Hey..I guess I missed something. Have they even announced the Emira pricing in Canada or is all of this preemptive whining?

The official Canada Emira pricing should be known this week with what Lotus of Vancouver told me.

My salesman and friend told me last week it was going to be 125K unofficialy when the USD to CAD exchange rate gives 118 300$ as of today rate. So another 7K on top of the 26% exchange rate. Do you think that this would be a good deal ?

We will see but it look no so good right now.

If the Emira could be priced in Canada just like the British Jaguars F-Type 2022 is, the Emira would be priced at 114 690$ and it would be fair.

F-Type 70KUSD = 85 500$ CAD
Emira FE V6 93.9K USD = 114 690$ CAD

That way the car would be a tad bit lower then a 116K base Cayman GT4 and slightly higher then a very well equipped GTS 4.0 at 95K base price + 15-17K in options including carbon bucket seats and destination charge.

C8 62K USD = 72K CAD

M2 CS 85K USD = 98K CAD

M4 Competition 75K USD = 88K CAD

The Canadian pricing for other cars do not even belong to the 26% exchange rate like Lotus does in the past for us.

 

[brgelise]

If I was into a quest for horsepower and speed , I would buy this just like my neighbor got last week but have zero interest for american car. 760HP for 100.5K.

View attachment 1298664

4300lbs I don't care if it has 10000 HP, not on my radar. I have been in 350's. Sweet car, glorious soundtrack. Just too damn heavy to surgically drive. Excess weight sucks the fun out of everything except the accel numbers, till that gets old too.

 

[brgelise]

This is precisely the point. The Emira offers something that nothing else does under $100k.

American cars never had to compete in the lithe and agility department because the manufacturers, Chevy and Ford in particular, always had gobs of power available and cheap gas to fuel it. Need more performance? Just increase the displacement of those small block V8s, doesn't matter if they only get 12 mpg because gas in the U.S. is 30 cents a gallon. At that time, post-war Europe was still working on recovering from the effects of WW2, so they didn't have big engines, and gas was a LOT more expensive over there. For them, the way to improve performance was through chassis development, lightness, higher revving small displacement engines, and 5 speed transmissions to make up for lack of power and torque with gearing. Necessity was the driver of their invention. In America, cars were big, heavy, and had 3 speed transmissions because that was all they needed. The V8 was their savior for performance. Lots of low rpm torque and power.

In recent years American manufacturers have improved the handling quotient dramatically; especially Chevy. The Camaro ZL1 1LE is the finest sports GT America has ever produced. It's no longer just a muscle car. The C8 shows Chevy's prowess in taking that tried and true formula to a mid-engine car. For bang for the buck, you really can't beat either one of those cars. They're raw, brash, powerful. They're also somewhat heavy, especially optioned-out.

The Emira is a completely different animal. It's not going to be as fast in a straight line as the Chevy's. Not going to have the same torque or grunt off the line. Once you get going however, you'll quickly see the difference between a rodeo bronco rider, and a thoroughbred equestrian. Not as loud, not as dramatic, refined, elegant, precise, smooth. It's just a higher order of automotive performance, taking into account more than raw power. That's why the Emira costs what it does. If that's what you're interested in, the Emira is a bargain. If not, it's too expensive compared to other cars.

Mileage has nothing to do with my argument here. I have been in all of those cars. Its all about the weight. Our Elige folks are rolling with me being happy at 3000lbs. Even I compromised with the Evora cuz except for Cayman,Porsche, yuck, what else is there short of a few micro producers. I kiss off a new Emira in my hands tomorrow if I could get a street legal Exige V6S or anything else on that chassis!
If I could buy a Noble or Rossion that wouldn't catch fire every track day, I'd definitely have one of those!!!

 

[NoFear99]

Let's be realistic here, you're not buying a mass-produced car or even a low-production car from a company that's used to mass-producing vehicles. This isn't like buying a Toyota Supra/C8 where you have a huge company, dealer network, any part you need when you need it. A huge community, aftermarket support, and so on.

I think reality will hit for many people who may be price-sensitive buyers and are stretching to buy the car. You're NOT buying a BMW 2-series with an M-badge, you're buying a boutique brand/car. Expect imperfections as you would with a supercar purchase (i.e. low-volume one-off type issues). Your maintenance costs will be higher, parts costs will be higher, parts availability will be more scare, this may drive insurance costs up as well. There may not be a "known issue/recall" that you can just run to the dealer for. You may be debugging a problem with the dealer for the first time and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect the car to break down in the middle of the road and not work, but people should understand that, until proven otherwise, this isn't the kind of car you get as your daily driver and depend on for everything. At least I wouldn't. I've yet to own a single car/motorcycle that hasn't had a recall or a problem in the first year.

Lotus will be successful with the Emira, but as they attract more price conscious buyers, there will be higher stakes; anything minor will be amplified. Expectations differ between market segments, I hope both buyer and seller are ready for this.

Porsche sell +or- 3000 Cayman in North America per year.

Lotus plan is to sell 4800 Emira per year to be profitable and close to 2000 units for North America alone.

I think very well that the terms low mass production can be applied here.

You are still thinking at Lotus the way you know it from the past.

If you see it like that too for the future better close the book right now.

The brand will disapear. I dont want that to happen and you probably dont want either.
To reach those sales numbers years after year for 5 to 10 years from now, you need the car to be affordable to the targeted customers. The average car enthousiast just like the Elise and Exige did in the past. Lotus sales dropped when they started raising the Evora price higher and higher.