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1,162 Posts
You're welcome to show Lotus how to do that. I'm sure they'd appreciate it. And don't forget to include Geely in your plan. They'll be excited too to know how to do what you seem to think is so easy to do.
Anyone else feel like Emira pricing is okay, but not great?
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I'm going to disagree. I think everyone would consider the Evora a "modern raw" experience and it did not sell well at all....
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507 Posts
Sure, let me show you....... JUST do NOT detune the AMG engine...... not that hard at all.
The rest of the recipe is already intact.
How hard was that ?
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1,162 Posts
You have no idea what's involved in dealing with regulations in today's heavily regulated, government suffocated world do you. It gets steadily worse every year. They haven't even finished the final specs for the V6 yet. They won't even start on the i4 until next year. Get something else; you're not going to be happy otherwise.
You’ve got me there.
However, 1.) the MSRP on Emira is lower, 2.) I think many think it is a prettier car and 3.) I’m expecting the material and build quality to be improved.
I’m a sample of one but the Evora didn’t work for me, the Emira appears to. Maybe this time it will be different, LOL.
I'll agree with those points. I've never found the Evora lines attractive. Something about the slope of the roof doesn't do it for me. I just can't bring myself to buying a used evora at 150k!!
Pre-Owned Lotus Cars - Lotus Cars Official Website - For the Drivers
Pre-owned Lotus vehicles from the official Lotus dealer network. Purchase a used Lotus through the global Lotus dealer network.
www.lotuscars.com
Anyone excepting shorts on the price of the used evora market?
didn't stop GM from building a 600hp 9000 rpm flat-plane v8 and tossing it into a car that will sell thousands more vehicles globally....I would think they could get an i4 more easily regulated globally.
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59 Posts
Price-wise it is OK. Considering the Evora was a $100K+ car and the maxed out FE is $93K it is a move in the right direction. The Emira FE will have dual screens and many modern amenities that the Evora never had, similar performance, and a lower price.
Competition-wise it is at least a contender. For decades the only people who bought a Lotus were the very few who ONLY wanted a Lotus. There was too much to sacrifice in price, performance, livability, features, dealer network, availability of parts, etc. For most people a Vette or Cayman was the easy choice. The Emira has solid performance*, comparable amenities, and is subjectively the best looking car. Lets be honest, a lot of people buy a sexy second car for the reactions they get and the Emira wins that competition. Is it $20K cheaper and 100hp more than it's competitors? Of course not, as pointed out previously Lotus is small, they don't have the scale to pull that off like GM is doing with the Vette. You can now get an exclusive car from a legendary brand with competitive performance and comparable amenities at a similar price to other 2-seat mid-engined sports cars - that's something amazing to pull off for a company as small as Lotus.
*A note about performance: 0-60 times and HP numbers are just you-know-what measuring. The 190hp 2006 Elise beat the 400hp 2006 Vette Z51 around VIR. Real performance is not a single measure, but the character of the car. Can it put down power mid corner? Can the front tires bite for a higher corner entry speed? How does the suspension handle transitions? Are the brakes fade-free and easy to modulate? Does the steering give accurate feedback? I regularly pass much more powerful cars on the race track with a 122hp Miata that does 0-60 in "whenever". Lotus is the champ at car feel. Other companies contract with Lotus to make their cars handle like a Lotus (Nissan GT-R, the new Genesis brand, and more). I am betting the Emira will have amazing performance. Maybe not the numbers champ, and that will keep some you-know-what measurers away, which I am fine with. Let the tools buy BMWs and Vettes. Keep the Lotus folks friendly.
Competition-wise it is at least a contender. For decades the only people who bought a Lotus were the very few who ONLY wanted a Lotus. There was too much to sacrifice in price, performance, livability, features, dealer network, availability of parts, etc. For most people a Vette or Cayman was the easy choice. The Emira has solid performance*, comparable amenities, and is subjectively the best looking car. Lets be honest, a lot of people buy a sexy second car for the reactions they get and the Emira wins that competition. Is it $20K cheaper and 100hp more than it's competitors? Of course not, as pointed out previously Lotus is small, they don't have the scale to pull that off like GM is doing with the Vette. You can now get an exclusive car from a legendary brand with competitive performance and comparable amenities at a similar price to other 2-seat mid-engined sports cars - that's something amazing to pull off for a company as small as Lotus.
*A note about performance: 0-60 times and HP numbers are just you-know-what measuring. The 190hp 2006 Elise beat the 400hp 2006 Vette Z51 around VIR. Real performance is not a single measure, but the character of the car. Can it put down power mid corner? Can the front tires bite for a higher corner entry speed? How does the suspension handle transitions? Are the brakes fade-free and easy to modulate? Does the steering give accurate feedback? I regularly pass much more powerful cars on the race track with a 122hp Miata that does 0-60 in "whenever". Lotus is the champ at car feel. Other companies contract with Lotus to make their cars handle like a Lotus (Nissan GT-R, the new Genesis brand, and more). I am betting the Emira will have amazing performance. Maybe not the numbers champ, and that will keep some you-know-what measurers away, which I am fine with. Let the tools buy BMWs and Vettes. Keep the Lotus folks friendly.
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363 Posts
Come on... GM has a ton of smaller vehicles to average down their combined emissions numbers, allowing them to produce a car like the C8 that exceeds the allowed limit. Lotus has one car, they can't average down.
Again, the situation is far more complicated than any of us can appreciate. I am in the business of designing, manufacturing, and distributing consumer products. It's a mind-boggling mesh of regulatory compliance and licensing issues, and that's just for relatively simple products.
Again, the situation is far more complicated than any of us can appreciate. I am in the business of designing, manufacturing, and distributing consumer products. It's a mind-boggling mesh of regulatory compliance and licensing issues, and that's just for relatively simple products.
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507 Posts
Really ??
- Mercedes-AMG has revealed its new turbocharged 2.0-liter inline-four, and it's the most powerful series-production four-cylinder in the world.
- It makes 416 horsepower and 369 lb-ft of torque in top trim, giving it a specific output of 208.9 horsepower per liter.
- The new engine will be put in the A45, the CLA45, the GLA45, and the GLB45.
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1,162 Posts
So GET ON THE PHONE AND TELL LOTUS. They have no idea how much more you know than they do! I'm sure Russell Carr and Gavan Kershaw, along with Matt Windle will be in awe of your advanced knowledge and wisdom! After all, they only make cars for a living, so what do they know? After years of development for this car, they probably don't know it's easy to suddenly switch engines without having any effect on planning and passing regulations! Give them a call before it's too late, and they get the FE homologated and start selling it, short-changing their customers if they'd only heard from you first!
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Actually, most of your framing has been in the context of other cars, not so much the Evora. Be that as it may, when you use the term 'performance' it has solely been in the context of straight line speed as determined by available power. The example you gave wasn't on the track, but other cars walking away from an Emira on the highway after leaving a cars and coffee.
There are so many other variables to performance than horsepower.
totally didn't think about the off-setting emission ratings. Agree it's a complicated situation globally. Just read a good article on the cayman saying the 2.0T helped get that car into the chinese market.
What are you talking about? This is an engine that's already in a production car - has been for years.
This is the part I don't like about some of the posts here. The made up excuses, before we even have a product. Yes, we all understand that you don't need power to have fun and there's a lot more to that formula than just power. But we don't need a detuned version of an engine that's been in production for over a decade, just so we can have another 'upgraded' version in the future of an engine we've already had.
Anyway, I'll eat my words and write a check on the spot if the US gets the red engine cover with the same Evora GT 416hp. If they don't it'll be a blow in the gut and I'm not sure what I'll do.
The worst part about it is if that happens and Lotus doesn't come out and say something (like: "we wanted to, but regulations changed" and so on), but just act like it's normal. Part of the success of the Porsche GT cars isn't just the performance, but largely the marketing. Ferrari and Porsche as great at marketing. When you have someone like Andreas Preuninger doing lengthy interviews and explaining so many details about the cars.
The emira will get this build....in the Emira S/GT. Obviously...
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507 Posts
Exactly....
I mean first year evora had no supercharger. I'm pretty sure they are used to screwing over early adopters. But, I think the V6 (manual) is a nice send off for them.
They didn't have a supercharger because it wasn't available at that time.
The Toyota 2GR-FE engine was released in 2004 (Toyota 2GR-FE Guide – Everything You Need To Know) and Evora launched in 2008 (design phase before that). So they took a modern engine for that time, one that's known to be reliable and put it in the car. Then in 2010 they came out with the "S" (supercharged) engine making approximately 345hp. In 2015 they released the intercooled Evora 400 making 400hp.
I won't go over the full history, you can read about it on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Evora), but the point I wanted to make is that Lotus wasn't necessarily screwing the early Evora buyers - they were upgrading as they could and they did a good job given the financial constraints.
However, if they don't start where they left off with the Evora, they will in effect be screwing the Emira buyers. For their sake, I hope that won't be the case. I really hope we are just going crazy in these forums due to lack of info and Lotus will come out and surprise us - by offering what has already existed. Yup, that'd be good enough for me
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OK, but how will that red engine cover go along with the blue visible ( fluid ?) cap ??
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