The Lotus Cars Community banner
161 - 180 of 288 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,188 Posts
<snip>but the point I wanted to make is that Lotus wasn't necessarily screwing the early Evora buyers - they were upgrading as they could and they did a good job given the financial constraints.
</snip>
And to give Lotus some credit (and for those here not familiar w/ the Evora lineage), for a very short while after the S model came out, they offered an S upgrade package, that added all the go-fast bits to the NA to make it an S. At the time, I believe it was around $10K, which would have been cheaper than selling the NA and buying an S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
And to give Lotus some credit (and for those here not familiar w/ the Evora lineage), for a very short while after the S model came out, they offered an S upgrade package, that added all the go-fast bits to the NA to make it an S. At the time, I believe it was around $10K, which would have been cheaper than selling the NA and buying an S.
I wonder if they would do that with the AMG motor on the Emira, basically an inhouse tune...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
I am torn here. I was very excited to get this car and put my deposit down. With the price north of $90k, I am very hesitant. I would love to see what an equally spec'd AMG I4 "First Edition" would cost.
 

·
Registered
2022 Lotus Emira
Joined
·
390 Posts
Survey says 3-4k USD less. Probably $89,990
People think that the FE is priced higher because of options. Based on everything I've heard and read, the $94k is the base price. The FE is getting all of the options at no additional cost. So everyone hoping for a cheaper future Emira without options better be looking to get an i4. I don't think the V6 will be a penny less, in fact, it'll be more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
What are you talking about? This is an engine that's already in a production car - has been for years.

This is the part I don't like about some of the posts here. The made up excuses, before we even have a product. Yes, we all understand that you don't need power to have fun and there's a lot more to that formula than just power. But we don't need a detuned version of an engine that's been in production for over a decade, just so we can have another 'upgraded' version in the future of an engine we've already had.

Anyway, I'll eat my words and write a check on the spot if the US gets the red engine cover with the same Evora GT 416hp. If they don't it'll be a blow in the gut and I'm not sure what I'll do.

The worst part about it is if that happens and Lotus doesn't come out and say something (like: "we wanted to, but regulations changed" and so on), but just act like it's normal. Part of the success of the Porsche GT cars isn't just the performance, but largely the marketing. Ferrari and Porsche as great at marketing. When you have someone like Andreas Preuninger doing lengthy interviews and explaining so many details about the cars.
You're assuming Lotus is just dropping in the exact same engine/trans they were using before without any modifications; the same engine that passed the regulations that used to be in effect, but have changed. The government tightens the emissions requirments steadily, year after year. Regulations for crash and safety also change. I have no doubt that Lotus has been working with the software and tuning to keep the car compliant with the regulations it has to meet for homologation, yet give it as much performance as they can. You don't think they'd love to say the Emira has 450 hp? Or even 430?

They shouldn't have to say this. They may actually be assuming that their customer base is educated enough to understand this; especially if they're an enthusiast who follows the sport and industry.

It's also not fair for those complaining that Lotus isn't like GM, compairing the two. GM is an international multi-billion dollar company that produces millions of vehicles, in many different types and models across multiple divisions. Lotus is making ONE car, and is a company that's used to making about 40 CARS A WEEK. Nothing even remotely close to what GM can do and does. What Lotus is doing now is a huge step up for them. Give them some slack here. They're not GM and they're not going to be able to do what GM does. Period. If that's what you're expecting, buy a C8. The Z06 is going to blow the doors off an Emira in sheer power and raw performance. Set your expectations accordingly if you're getting an Emira. It's not going to beat the Z06.
 

·
Registered
2022 Lotus Emira
Joined
·
390 Posts
View attachment 1298969


That blue thingy bottom left
Doesn't bother me at all, it's a simple part that's easy to replace and is most likely not final. That's one of those parts, where if Lotus does make a decision to make it in blue (or body matching color), you'll be able to order an anodized aluminum cap from some aftermarket party for $50. Not at all in the same ballpark as the SC cover.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
People think that the FE is priced higher because of options. Based on everything I've heard and read, the $94k is the base price. The FE is getting all of the options at no additional cost. So everyone hoping for a cheaper future Emira without options better be looking to get an i4. I don't think the V6 will be a penny less, in fact, it'll be more.
You've said that before. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If the base i4 is $74,900, then it's only going to be a few thousand more to switch to the V6; not another $20k.
 

·
Registered
2022 Lotus Emira
Joined
·
390 Posts
You're assuming Lotus is just dropping in the exact same engine/trans they were using before without any modifications; the same engine that passed the regulations that used to be in effect, but have changed. The government tightens the emissions requirments steadily, year after year. Regulations for crash and safety also change. I have no doubt that Lotus has been working with the software and tuning to keep the car compliant with the regulations it has to meet for homologation, yet give it as much performance as they can. You don't think they'd love to say the Emira has 450 hp? Or even 430?
Assuming? It is the same exact engine and transmission. If there were modifications it would be part of their advertising, just like everything else. Companies like to boast about things like this.

They shouldn't have to say this. They may actually be assuming that their customer base is educated enough to understand this; especially if they're an enthusiast who follows the sport and industry.
I'm educated enough to understand that if it were stated somewhere. But so far you're the one doing the explaining and defending, not Lotus. So unless you have some insight from Lotus or can point to some new regulations, you're making the same exact assumptions the rest of us are. Except you're being defensive on Lotus' behalf, which may be warranted, given how rabid some of the members are here. I hope you don't confuse what I say with some of the more extreme viewpoints - especially those people who think Lotus owes them more for less.

It's also not fair for those complaining that Lotus isn't like GM, compairing the two. GM is an international multi-billion dollar company that produces millions of vehicles, in many different types and models across multiple divisions. Lotus is making ONE car, and is a company that's used to making about 40 CARS A WEEK. Nothing even remotely close to what GM can do and does. What Lotus is doing now is a huge step up for them. Give them some slack here. They're not GM and they're not going to be able to do what GM does. Period. If that's what you're expecting, buy a C8. The Z06 is going to blow the doors off an Emira in sheer power and raw performance. Set your expectations accordingly if you're getting an Emira. It's not going to beat the Z06.
Agree with you 100% and that's part of the Lotus charm. All I'm saying is: don't deliver LESS than you did last year, Lotus. That is all, no defense needed, I'm not claiming they are going to do it, I'm just saying that's my hope - if I'm to be excited about the car.
 

·
Registered
2022 Lotus Emira
Joined
·
390 Posts
You've said that before. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If the base i4 is $74,900, then it's only going to be a few thousand more to switch to the V6; not another $20k.
Yes, I have and note their literature says No Cost Option/NCO.

But as far as my the 'few thousand more' comment, we don't know what Toyota or AMG charge for their crate engines and what's included. A supercharger from Edelbrock is definitely not included as part of the Toyota package and the transmission has some customizations done. That SC package alone is $10k retail, let's say $5-7k wholesale to Lotus. Whereas the AMG package may be a complete drop-in and already includes the turbo's, transmission, etc. Who knows, but I don't think it's just a "few more thousand."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Yes, I have and note their literature says No Cost Option/NCO.

But as far as my the 'few thousand more' comment, we don't know what Toyota or AMG charge for their crate engines and what's included. A supercharger from Edelbrock is definitely not included as part of the Toyota package and the transmission has some customizations done. That SC package alone is $10k retail, let's say $5-7k wholesale to Lotus. Whereas the AMG package may be a complete drop-in and already includes the turbo's, transmission, etc. Who knows, but I don't think it's just a "few more thousand."
OMG you don't think they mean they're not charging for the options? NCO means there's not an extra charge to choose between the included options if there's something you can choose, not that they aren't charging for it in the first place. They're giving you some no cost options within a bundle package that's already factored in for price. It's not free.

To choose between an AMG/DCT and the V6 means you subtract the cost of the AMG setup and switch it out for the V6. You're paying for the difference to upgrade. That's how it can only cost for example, $1,500 or whatever it is to change from a manual to an automatic transmission. You subtract the cost of the manual and pay the difference.
 

·
Registered
2022 Lotus Emira
Joined
·
390 Posts
OMG you don't think they mean they're not charging for the options? NCO means there's not an extra charge to choose between the included options if there's something you can choose, not that they aren't charging for it in the first place. They're giving you some no cost options within a bundle package that's already factored in for price. It's not free.
Well, that's how it was described to me by my dealer. The options will be available free of charge for FE. The same options will be available for the 2023 model, but at that point they will be an additional cost.

To choose between an AMG/DCT and the V6 means you subtract the cost of the AMG setup and switch it out for the V6. You're paying for the difference to upgrade. That's how it can only cost for example, $1,500 or whatever it is to change from a manual to an automatic transmission. You subtract the cost of the manual and pay the difference.
LOL, that's a given, but if you have to explain that to me, you must have a really low opinion.

All I'm saying is that it's POSSIBLE the AMG package costs Lotus $20k and it's a plug-and-play operation. Whereas the Toyota package might cost Lotus $10-15k but requires lots of customization, bringing it up to the same $20-ish thousand. Add to that a $10k supercharger and now you're at $30k.

I'm just saying, there may be more to the package than meets the eye. We don't know how well Lotus has negotiated their contract. For AMG this is one of their newest bread-and-butter engines, for Toyota it's an old retired work-horse and to keep providing it to Lotus might be more expensive too.

Who knows, we're all speculating. I'm just saying it's well within the realm of possibility that there's a pretty significant price between the pre-packaged AMG offering and the "bespoke" Toyota V6/SC option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
I think there is some confusion here - the First Edition comes pre-loaded with basically all of the option packs. As a thank you for purchasing the first edition, the price is set on the car with those options already included; if you purchase a v6 in the future and select those same options in the future, it will likely be more than a First Edition. However, you would also be able to spec a base v6 with just the option packs you want and it would likely come in lower priced than the First Edition.

To state another way; buying the First Edition is for people who want the v6 models with all of the options, and in thanks Lotus is giving a "discount" on the total price of the car. Win / win - they get to standardize the first year model run and customers get fully optioned cars at a likely small discount compared to later runs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
324 Posts
People think that the FE is priced higher because of options. Based on everything I've heard and read, the $94k is the base price. The FE is getting all of the options at no additional cost. So everyone hoping for a cheaper future Emira without options better be looking to get an i4. I don't think the V6 will be a penny less, in fact, it'll be more.
This makes no sense. I've heard it multiple times that the FE includes about 15K GBP of options discounted to about 12k. That's the benefit of buying an FE. I can't imagine any rational scenario where the old V6/Manual base price is almost 20k higher than the new i4 base.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
This makes no sense. I've heard it multiple times that the FE includes about 15K GBP of options discounted to about 12k. That's the benefit of buying an FE. I can't imagine any rational scenario where the old V6/Manual base price is almost 20k higher than the new i4 base.
A $94k base price would be suicide, imo. The way you described it above is exactly how I interpreted things as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
924 Posts
Well, that's how it was described to me by my dealer. The options will be available free of charge for FE. The same options will be available for the 2023 model, but at that point they will be an additional cost.



LOL, that's a given, but if you have to explain that to me, you must have a really low opinion.

All I'm saying is that it's POSSIBLE the AMG package costs Lotus $20k and it's a plug-and-play operation. Whereas the Toyota package might cost Lotus $10-15k but requires lots of customization, bringing it up to the same $20-ish thousand. Add to that a $10k supercharger and now you're at $30k.

I'm just saying, there may be more to the package than meets the eye. We don't know how well Lotus has negotiated their contract. For AMG this is one of their newest bread-and-butter engines, for Toyota it's an old retired work-horse and to keep providing it to Lotus might be more expensive too.

Who knows, we're all speculating. I'm just saying it's well within the realm of possibility that there's a pretty significant price between the pre-packaged AMG offering and the "bespoke" Toyota V6/SC option.
There's a meme for this somewhere, but it goes something like "Your dealer's an idiot".

Lotus does their own programming. I doubt they're simply going to buy the AMG/DCT setup and just install it as-is. They're going to do the same thing that they're doing with the Toyota/supercharger package; tweak and customize the ECU and probably intake/exhaust for their usage. If this is the same Toyota/supercharger hardware they've been buying all along, then it isn't going to be dramatically more expensive as hardware. In fact they should be getting an even better cost per unit because they're ordering in larger quantities. What's going to cost is the time and labor invested into tuning, testing and meeting the latest emissions requirements.

I honestly don't think there's going to be that big a price difference. I would guess somewhere between $2k-$4k, so the base V6 with manual should be somewhere around $78k-ish. That puts the FE bundle at around $16k which is about right for all that. I just looked at the 2022 configurator for Alfa Romeo and they're charging extra for everything. Each paint color is a different price, it's $600 for red calipers, etc. Option costs add up fast. GM and Porsche does the same thing. The FE bundle Lotus is offering is actually pretty generous for all it includes, and the no cost options within it that you have.
 
161 - 180 of 288 Posts
Top