[Maverick1]

I was wondering if I order the standard Elise, can I get the Yokohama AO48R tires if I find the standard tires are not sticky enough?? ie do the AO48R's come in sizes to fit the standard rims?


This is off topic, but I was reading a British car mag and in one article it had the Mitsubishi Evo 8 VIII FQ400 vs the Pagani Zonda supercar and the Evo out performed the Zonda....WoW.
The Evo did 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. That is just sick.

 

[Stan]

Yes you can put them on the standard rims. The fronts will be slightly held back by the narrower wheel width but there will still be tons more grip and a more neutral nature.

 

[Vantage]

Sure, the Evo can do 0-60 in 3.6 (something tuners have been doing for years) with its superior off the line traction, but why don't they race from 60-120mph? Kind of a ridiculous article IMO. That Zonda is sexy.

 

[Maverick1]

Thanks for the info Stan. By the way

did you order the standard Elise or did you go with the sport package. I think I saw a pic of your yellow car and it had different rims to the standard??
How does the yellow car look in person?? I have only seen the storm Ti color and really did not care for it. I want something brighter. I have not placed my final order as of yet and am still debating on what color to go with. I have narrowed it down to either the yellow or the Lazer blue if that is still available, tough decision. People keep telling me to get a bright color due to the small size of the car, brighter is easier to be seen.
Cheers Doug
P.S. I think the mods you made to the interior look very sweet.

 

[usofrob]

Haha, that's a very similar thought process I went through. I wanted something bright, but I don't really like red. My dealer had the Saffron Yellow. It's a good color. I think it looks a little better in the shade than in the sun. But it's a nice solid, on the dark side (with some added orange) of yellow, but still the brightest color they offer. But, what I really really wanted was Lazer Blue. That's what I ordered with the backup of Saffron Yellow. I have not recieved confirmation on what color I actually got.

Because I wasn't getting the Touring package, I wasn't going to be able to get anything but the black half cloth interior. And with the black interior, the only color I would pay more than the yellow for was the Laser Blue. Either way I know I'll be happy.

 

[tonykomo]

If you had the money, which would you rather have? The infinitely realworld faster Evo or the beautiful Zonda? These side by side comparisons are for the people who can't afford the better car and need their egos stroked. Very pointless article in my opinion. It would have been more interesting to compare the Evo to an actual WRC. Afterall, that's what the Evo is all about. Then they could compare a Zonda to an F430 or something similar.

I think the car mags have run out of interesting things to say and do. Review after review of faster and faster cars. Yawn....

I was wondering if I order the standard Elise, can I get the Yokohama AO48R tires if I find the standard tires are not sticky enough?? ie do the AO48R's come in sizes to fit the standard rims?


This is off topic, but I was reading a British car mag and in one article it had the Mitsubishi Evo 8 VIII FQ400 vs the Pagani Zonda supercar and the Evo out performed the Zonda....WoW.
The Evo did 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. That is just sick.

 

[theob]

I was wondering if I order the standard Elise, can I get the Yokohama AO48R tires if I find the standard tires are not sticky enough?? ie do the AO48R's come in sizes to fit the standard rims?


This is off topic, but I was reading a British car mag and in one article it had the Mitsubishi Evo 8 VIII FQ400 vs the Pagani Zonda supercar and the Evo out performed the Zonda....WoW.
The Evo did 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. That is just sick.

There are conflicting views about the A048 on standard rims. Some people like Stan and other Elise owners say that you can fit them on standard rims (the main issue is with the front tires, obviously not the rear ones!). Service guys or other Lotus people don't recommend it.

Moreover, should you fit in any case the A048 (either on stock or other rims), you should definetely consider the suspension upgrade. That's because the much better grip you get form the A048s gives more bodyroll to your car, an issue solved immediately with the uprated suspension.
Personally, I'm waiting for the Ohlins fully adjustable suspension set (bump, rebound, height + corner weighting!!!) to be released for the 111R. It's available already for the Exige Mk2, but for the 111R it will be available within the next month, so to be able to include it in our X-mas wish list!!

btw, which mag had the test?

 

[tonykomo]

Not just the suspension, but also the bushes. The stock rubber bushes will squelch around. You should replace them with Nylatron bushes.

 

[tonykomo]

Full article here: http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81084

 

[Surferjer]

I ordered the stock suspension, but have swapped out the coilovers, removed shims, and just last night got my SSRs with AO48s. The car should be much faster on a course now. Stan has done all that too, and then some.

I don't think you can order AO48s on 5.5 inch wheel and standard (Non-LSS) suspension setup directly from Lotus. But that doesn't mean you can't add them later, like I did. Once my AD07s wear out, I'm putting my AO48s on the standard rims and getting Hoosiers for the racing wheels. The specs on the AO48s say it can go on rims 5.5-7. The standard is 5.5, the LSS wheel (and the SSRs) are 6.5.

 

[Stan]

>>>There are conflicting views about the A048 on standard rims. Some people like Stan and other Elise owners say that you can fit them on standard rims (the main issue is with the front tires, obviously not the rear ones!). Service guys or other Lotus people don't recommend it. <<<

Yokohama says that you can do this, no problem.

>>>Moreover, should you fit in any case the A048 (either on stock or other rims), you should definetely consider the suspension upgrade. That's because the much better grip you get form the A048s gives more bodyroll to your car, an issue solved immediately with the uprated suspension. <<<

No exactly. The LSS springs are 10% stiffer than the LTS springs. In the realm of changing suspension parts that is next to nothing and you can't even feel it if that is the only change. The difference in ride between LTS and LSS is mostly due to the tires and firmer dampers. Factory Sport options have much larger percentage changes than 10 percent. Like 25-100% stiffer. Or more.

On body roll. You can get the Elise to corner on the bumpstops with AD07, AO48 or Hoosier tires in my experience during autocross. Those three have markedly different amounts of grip. The Elise winds up at about 3 degrees of roll in each instance. The LSS dampers have no affect on this since steady state conditions don't involve the shocks. Again, LTS and LSS springs are only about 10% different in rate. That's not as much a spring change as a fine tuning change.

 

[Stan]

>>>did you order the standard Elise or did you go with the sport package. I think I saw a pic of your yellow car and it had different rims to the standard?? <<<

I felt that LTS was the way to go for someone who does track stuff on occasion. Since you can get the sport springs for just under $200 a set and wheel options are less expensive than from Lotus and I plan to get adjustable dampers later on.

>>>How does the yellow car look in person?? I have only seen the storm Ti color and really did not care for it. I want something brighter. I have not placed my final order as of yet and am still debating on what color to go with. I have narrowed it down to either the yellow or the Lazer blue if that is still available, tough decision. People keep telling me to get a bright color due to the small size of the car, brighter is easier to be seen. Cheers Doug
P.S. I think the mods you made to the interior look very sweet.<<<

This is my 3rd Lotus. For small cars I think that a bright color helps. You should try to see some of the colors in person. You may love/hate some that you first hated/loved. Storm Ti is a blend in with everything else color in my opinion.

 

[Surferjer]

I agree with Stan. I really couldn't notice much of a difference in my ride after I swapped the springs out. I haven't driven the AO48s yet-that starts today.

 

[Stan]

>>I haven't driven the AO48s yet-that starts today.<<

I think you'll like them!! Make sure you check the pressures - mine were delivered with high 30s PSI. (and three fronts and one rear...). The steering feels firmer at parking speeds, they are noisier and let more road harshness through. But they are much grippier and the balance of the car is more neutral. You have to watch the install arrows too as they are directional like the stock tires.

 

[Surferjer]

I had already heeded your advice. I got four correct tires, and my air pressures were all between 28 and 30 PSI. I will run 26 and 28 this weekend. And I like the look of the SSRs!

I drove in on wet roads, and my snowplow suddenly turned into a go cart! The AD07s plow something fierce in the wet, but the AO48s are amazing! (the increased negative camber might have helped, too)

I cannot wait until Sunday. Stan-get your butt down here for the state championships! You can stay at my house Saturday night. There's already at least 12 drivers registered, four in Elises (Perry, brian, me and Matt) and the rest in various Vettes. Should be a hoot. And a chance of showers could really shake things up.

 

[Vtechelise]

fitment on 5.5's

Posting a little late regarding the tire fitment. The 048 on the 5.5 rim will mount up, but is far from optimal. As Chris Rock says,"you can drive yo car with yo feet, but that don't make it right".
There are many reasons why Lotus does not recommend it. The sidewalls are pulled in too much and you end up with a rounded contact patch. During track or auto x driving, the center of the tires will run much hotter than the edges creating uneven and accelerated tire wear in the center, it will not allow the tire to heat up to temperature evenly across the entire contact patch, and grip will be compromised. Put a proper tire temp probe, (not an infrared, not as effective) and you'll see what I mean. A friend put 048's on his car with 5.5 rims on front, tracked a weekend, and you could see the rubber peeling in all the wrong places, as well as measuring over 20 degrees difference between the sides and center of tire just coming off the track. Middles were always too hot. (He bought SSR's that monday) On large (normal, heavy cars) we try for 15 degrees hotter from inside, 20max, decreasing from inside to outside of tires, assuming proper camber. The lotus should see 15 or so max difference being so light.
For normal steet driving, however, those factors are not as important nor noticeable.
Other good points were made on other posts regarding shock and spring setups. Springs and damper rates are calibrated to tires by Lotus engineers to create a balanced chassis and calculated roll under cornering loads. Putting far grippier tires on softer calibrated suspension increases body roll during aggressive driving, sometimes lessening the "tightness" during cornering, and can sometimes be dangerous, although I believe much less so in the Lotus. Don't confuse the stiffer sidewalls and the way they transmit more "feel" to the way the chassis settles during turn in and weight transfer dynamics.
Evo vs a Pagani Zonda? What kind of a comparison is that? Sheer numbers don't begin to describe the Zonda. Evo's are great cars, but price no object, it's not even close...

 

[Stan]

Vtech...you're a bit theoretical in some of your comments in my view.

The OP knows that AO48s won't be at their best on a 5.5 rim. I think they would still work great, and you might not even be able to tell in a blind test. R-compound tires with stiff sidewall behave more consistently with changing wheels widths than do soft sidewalled pure street tires. And it's not that bad since 5.5 is still in the range in which the tire can work well according to Yokohama themselves. Check their web site or Tire Rack's specs for the tire. You could go further and say that they won't be at their best on the 6.5 inch wide LSS rims either. Tires work best in handling applications when the wheels width is greatest. But Lotus is not using the widest rim Yokohama suggests!! The 195 AO48 has a recc'd wheel width range of 5.5 to 7 inches. And it's likely to work even better at 7.5 to 8 if that could be mounted.

Hmm what about the rears? Well Yoko says that they are good to go on rims an INCH wider than Lotus is using, 8.5s.

The two US suspension choices use the same front sway bar and differ in spring rate by only 10%. A racer would not make a change that small. It's just not a large change. And the same F/R balance was retained. AO48s on 5.5 would grip much better than AD07s on the same wheel.

 

[Surferjer]

Vtech-you make some good points. I'm not worried about it, though, for the reasons Stan puts out plus I have no intention of autoXing the narrow rims. I have SSRs for that! They are 6.5 in the front and will be sporting either AO48s or Hoosiers.

 

[Charles Rozier]

The two US suspension choices use the same front sway bar and differ in spring rate by only 10%. A racer would not make a change that small. It's just not a large change. And the same F/R balance was retained.

Were the Lotus engineers being too fiddly in the way they set up the LSS compared to the base suspension? I suspect they were simply working logically, trying to get both suspensions to behave similarly overall.

IIRC, test reports in various magazines generally obtained on the order of 10% more lateral g's from the A048 cars than the AD07 on a skidpad. I know that difference can feel like a lot from inside the car, but that's roughly the number.

I suspect the Lotus engineers simply wanted both suspensions to have the same amount of clearance from the bumpstops during cornering, while retaining as much compliance as possible to maximize grip on imperfect surfaces. This pretty much means 10% stiffer springs for the 10% grippier tires. One of the qualities of the Elise is its ride/handling compromise, and Lotus tried to preserve it in both packages. Lotus must base its settings on a cross-section of situations, apparently favoring occasional track days mixed with street driving.

Of course, if your applications and your tolerance of tradeoffs are different from Lotus engineers', you can tailor the car. You can run even stiffer springs to limit camber change on good surfaces, while being satisfied with the harder ride and loss of grip on poor surfaces. OTOH, you can run the grippier tires on the softer springs and not care about increased roll, loss of travel under load, or larger camber changes as long as you are satisfied with the results in your specific applications. I, for one, plan to run extra front negative camber and will live with any braking and tire wear problems. But I suspect Lotus' small tweaks between LSS and LTS are very well optimized for their stated purposes.

BTW, I wonder if aside from the front tire sizes, one of the reasons for the change in handling balance in the LSS is that the front anti-roll bar IS the same in both. Since front bars normally increase understeer, and since the LSS tires are grippier, the stiffness contribution from the bar is therefore less with LSS; that would reduce understeer. You could get a similar effect by using a smaller front bar on the LTS, if one existed.

 

[Stan]

It looks like you can get the car on the bumpstops with the AD07 & AO48 as well as with Hoosier racing rubber when doing autocross maneuvers. Some other Elise variations run much lower ride heights than the US cars.

Both of the suspensions are sport suspensions. The main difference in ride, noise and harshness comes from the tires here, followed by the dampers with the springs being an insignificant change. In steady state cornering the dampers are out of the picture as the suspension has taken a set.