Does anyone know of a well sorted brake upgrade that will work with 15" front, and 16" rear wheel setups? With my current setup I am still experiencing brake fade despite ss lines and Pagid blues w/motul fluid. The car is much faster than before though with the turbo kit. I still have the LSS wheels 16/17 that came with the car, but love the handling of the smaller wheels and the lower tire prices. This car is tracked between 6-10 days per year. Hopefully more as time goes on. Any advice is welcomed. :wave:
Brake upgrade for 15/16" wheel setup
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i have no experience, but in principle ducting would seem to me the lighter, cheaper, and more elegant solution regardless... very "lotus" if you ask me. And the faster you're going, the more it will help, plus, it will still help even if you do ultimately end up with a beefier brake solution.
If they do help a lot, it would be a good case where the concept doesn't get much play as an idea or solution becuase marketing and business folks find it hard to charge premium for it... and where people often spend time looking to put a bandaid on the problem instead of a solution for the problem. The problem isnt' that the brakes don't work... the problem is too much heat building up... so why not fix the heat build up problem by reducing the heat instead of just throwing bigger parts at it.
Can you tell i really like the brake ducting idea?... very cool.
If they do help a lot, it would be a good case where the concept doesn't get much play as an idea or solution becuase marketing and business folks find it hard to charge premium for it... and where people often spend time looking to put a bandaid on the problem instead of a solution for the problem. The problem isnt' that the brakes don't work... the problem is too much heat building up... so why not fix the heat build up problem by reducing the heat instead of just throwing bigger parts at it.
Can you tell i really like the brake ducting idea?... very cool.
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I am running 15/16 on track.
First, you can use better brake pads than Pagid Blue. For track, I am using Raybestos ST-43, a lot better than Pagid Blue, but you can not use it on the street. I am changing the pad on track pit, anyway, I am changing the tire wheel at the same time.
In regards of the heat itself. You need more cooling, or more weight on the disc. I updated my disc with Alcon rotor DV295/28/53-12/178L/R on front. I build my-self the hat, if you want the drawing, PM me. The disc is bigger in diameter and in thickness. To compensate the bigger OD, very simple, just need shim to fit the caliper. For the thickness, just need to build small spacer to enlarge the caliper, with aluminum sheet .080. This set-up fits very close to my SSR wheel.
For the rear, I installed Alcon DV295/25/53-12/178L/R, reduced OD to suit the original OD. I also build the hat.
With that set-up, no trouble anymore, running with a supercharged engine. The first year with stock engine, I burned 3 set of pad, stock, EBC red (very bad stuff), and the Pagid Blue. plus, I cracked the rotor. I blow also the ABS unit.
First, you can use better brake pads than Pagid Blue. For track, I am using Raybestos ST-43, a lot better than Pagid Blue, but you can not use it on the street. I am changing the pad on track pit, anyway, I am changing the tire wheel at the same time.
In regards of the heat itself. You need more cooling, or more weight on the disc. I updated my disc with Alcon rotor DV295/28/53-12/178L/R on front. I build my-self the hat, if you want the drawing, PM me. The disc is bigger in diameter and in thickness. To compensate the bigger OD, very simple, just need shim to fit the caliper. For the thickness, just need to build small spacer to enlarge the caliper, with aluminum sheet .080. This set-up fits very close to my SSR wheel.
For the rear, I installed Alcon DV295/25/53-12/178L/R, reduced OD to suit the original OD. I also build the hat.
With that set-up, no trouble anymore, running with a supercharged engine. The first year with stock engine, I burned 3 set of pad, stock, EBC red (very bad stuff), and the Pagid Blue. plus, I cracked the rotor. I blow also the ABS unit.
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4,457 Posts
Ducting has clearly helped. Please recognize that the crash structure does need to get cut to install the ducts. This is a safety compromise that not everyone is willing to make. Fixing the source of the problem does require other tradeoffs - it is never as simple as we'd like.
Raybestos pads are aggressive AND they eat rotors just as aggressively. I guess I should be a big fan of them since they will help me sell more rotors.
The Hawk HT10s are a better compromise.
Our ULTRAdiscs or discNOIR rotors are also vented correctly on both sides - which should also help.
Raybestos pads are aggressive AND they eat rotors just as aggressively. I guess I should be a big fan of them since they will help me sell more rotors.
The Hawk HT10s are a better compromise. Our ULTRAdiscs or discNOIR rotors are also vented correctly on both sides - which should also help.
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933 Posts
Shinoo,
The Raybestos ST-43 are not that bad for the rotor when the disc are hot, but really bad when they are cold like on street. A little bit like the Hawk Blue, they are just machining the disc when they are cold, and close to no wear when hot. The Pagid blue are not very frendly for the rotor on street too, but better than ST-43.
I did not try the Hawk HT10 yet. I guess they are pretty good, for street... not sure.
Soigne, do not touch to Hawk HP Plus, or any EBC pads.
Regards
The Raybestos ST-43 are not that bad for the rotor when the disc are hot, but really bad when they are cold like on street. A little bit like the Hawk Blue, they are just machining the disc when they are cold, and close to no wear when hot. The Pagid blue are not very frendly for the rotor on street too, but better than ST-43.
I did not try the Hawk HT10 yet. I guess they are pretty good, for street... not sure.
Soigne, do not touch to Hawk HP Plus, or any EBC pads.
Regards
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That is correct. Race style pads all need proper operating temperature to work in the intended way. (And to find the right compound you first must know the operating temperature.) For the street use street pads.
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I'm not surprised you are fading the Pagid Blue, it is not really a true race pad. (more of a compromise street/race)
You should definitely try the HT-10, there should be feedback on this forum as well as from personal experience.
We have just completed some more street testing of the Hawk race compounds and we have had no issues running the HT-10 / DTC series Hawk race pads on the street as long as it is warm (and you are in a warm climate all the time).
The ht-10s have a moderately high temp range that is well suited for the Elises.
On our main track car (300WHP, 3000 pounds) we definitely need all the help we can get, so we go with the DTC-70.
-G
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