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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well he's back and he's locking post out again. Latest victim was some post about the price of the Elise.
They had a poll asking people how high the price might be marked up.

You can see it on the link below:
http://66.139.73.25/lcuforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86

I know that it is not uncommon for car to be marked up if popular.
PT cruisers were marked up as high as $20k over MSRP when they first came out.

Anyway Lotus Admin closed the tread and said it was a ridiculous discussion. I fail to see why it is, especially knowing that some dealers already plan to not move people up on their list so that they can sell the spots at a premium.

On top of this according to Ford it is illegal for a manufacturer to dictate price to a reseller.

See the FAQ section on their website:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/faq.asp?bhcp=1
 

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Lotus should can that fool and find someone who has a clue what they're doing.

You know there's a problem when your moderator makes people stop visiting your message board.
 

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Sorry, but I'm with Lotus Admin on this one. I'm glad he locked the threads.

I see no need to start a discussion about how high the mark-ups could be just so some speculator can gauge how much price gouging the market will bear. I am thoroughly disgusted with the idea that some people see the Elise as just a chance to make a few bucks. This probably will occur, but I don't believe that we need to legitimize the practice by discussing where to set the price.

I was offered the chance to move up to #2 on a list by paying a $5000 to $8000 premium to a young greedy speculator. Not interested.

Now, if one of you plans to buy the car early, sell it for a nice profit, then buy another later on, f*** you! Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's how I feel. If you are going to do something like this, I suggest that you keep it to yourself and fly under the radar.
 

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While that could have been his motivation, he didn't say "I want to know so that I can sell this car for a profit when it gets here".

To be perfectly honest with you, even I would be curious to know what type of premium people might be paying for these cars when they arrive, and I have no intention whatsoever of selling mine... it's simply curiosity, get over it.
 

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We live in a capitalist society. Products will be priced by sellers (dealers and speculators) at what the market will bear. There are plenty of rich folk who can drop $8-10k on a 'market adjustment' and not even blink.

Remember when the supply meets the demand, these same sellers will have to take prices that are under MSRP. I've seen several Lotus dealers who have had to sell brand new Espirits for $5-10k under MSRP! I never hear any consumers shouting against such situations.

Naturally I am also sickened by these speculators. But I'll take them over 'price control' by the government anyday.

BTW: I love that Gladiator/LA picture. I bust a gut everytime I see it :D
 

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I'm as lustful about this car as the next chap (if not more.) But I'd like to point one thing out. I think it safe to say that all of us are in positions that we can walk away from this car and our daily routine will not be disrupted. This is not a NEED buy but a WANT buy, there is no better position. The ball is in our court. We're enthusiasts who like this car for what it represents. They make plenty of money between invoice and MSRP; and I for one am ready to very comfortably walk away from the Elise if I'm asked to pay more and start shopping for another 944 S2 Cab or a 968.
 

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Randy originally came up w/ that picture, I tweaked it a little. (Lotus medallion, etc.)

It captures the "power" of L.A. perfectly! :)

Thomas
 

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babak said:
if I'm asked to pay more and start shopping for another 944 S2 Cab or a 968.
I'm with you, Babak. If my dealer adds any mark up, I'm getting another 911. Or maybe a Boxster S at $10k off sticker...:D
 

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zvezdah1 said:
Why are you guys so worried about being ripped off by your dealers, your contract is for msrp isn't??

Chris
That is what irritates me about this thread. We have had lots of discussion about our desire to be treated right by the dealers and hold them to MSRP. And some of us complained about the potential for a dealer prep charge. So, I don't see how you reconcile this with a discussion of how high the mark-up on the cars could go.

If it's ok for us to profit by selling the car for a huge mark-up, then the dealers would be foolish not to do the same to all of us. In my opinion, if you endorse this practice, then you are sending a message to the dealers that it's ok for them to do it too. I would rather send the message that this is a deplorable practice. What goes around, comes around.

Sorry if I overreacted, but I still haven't recovered from the little sob that offered to sell his spot to me for thousands of $$ profit. No doubt there are people out there with more money than brains, but I don't need to know about it.
 

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Derek said:
[...]
it is illegal for a manufacturer to dictate price to a reseller.
[...]
When I first read this, I wondered about Saturn's no hassle/haggle policy. After reading Saturn's fine print, dealers indeed ultimately set the price.

My question is: what can manufacturers do to discourage charging over MSRP? Is it legal for a manufacturer to limit dealer allotment based on how much a dealer charges for a car?

I'd guess that manufacturers would rather discourage charging more than MSRP in order to increase sales and have happier customers.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Re: Re: Breaking News: Lotus Admin Strikes Again

Dan said:

My question is: what can manufacturers do to discourage charging over MSRP? Is it legal for a manufacturer to limit dealer allotment based on how much a dealer charges for a car?
I think that would be a good way to get sued in this land of litigation
 

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Lotus could do the following to avoid dealer markup:

They could not sell them but lease them instead. I think Ferrari did this with the F-40 or F-50. You werent able to sell it since Ferrari was able to stay on the title as the owner.

If Lotus made us all do 48 month leases at $800 per month it would total something like $38000. We could then have the option of buying the car for $1 at the end of the lease. After that you would be the legal owner of the car and could sell it at the going market rate. This would prevent people from being able to sell their car for 4 years, since they would have to terminate the lease and turn in the car if they didnt want it anymore and then Lotus would get to lease it out to someone else.

The only problem is that Lotus doesnt get all the cash up front
and that it is nearly impossible to get a loan to pay for a lease on a car, since the leasee is not the legal owner of the car, and therefore the bank doesnt have any collateral. Also you would proably need some type of gap coverage in case you totalled the car before the lease was up.

Or Lotus could make us all sign agreements that as part of the purchase agreement, we could only sell the car back to an authorized dealer during the first two years of ownership, and that the title would list both the purchaser and Lotus as owners during this time but I dont know if this would stand up in court.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Breaking News: Lotus Admin Strikes Again

Derek said:
I think that would be a good way to get sued in this land of litigation

Not really. You can always have the allocation based on customer satisfaction.

In the survey, just ask a customer:

In a scale of 1 to 10, how satisfy are you with the price that you have to paid, knowing that the MSRP is $38,500 and that most customers within the United States paid no more than MSRP?

Now, I am sure Lotus will not ask this question, as it will pits off a customer big time. But my question then is: why doesn't Lotus attempt to do something to have one less upset customer.
 

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A great many companies set advertised minimums, and lowest cost sale of a product for resellers. This way they dont undercut each other and drive one another out of business.

It all depends on the agreements the dealer signed when initially setting up the sales arangement for the car. If a manufacturer really cared, they COULD fix the price at a dealer with penalties for selling at anything other than MSRP. Similar to how Ferrari does it.

Of course Ferrari just has the manager buy the car, drive it for 30 miles, then sell it as a used car at 200k vs the 140k it should cost...

Scot
 

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From the lotus admin on "the other board"

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Well as with any board, we have members who like to argue for the sake of argument.

Speculate all you wish and call it whatever you want, but if you didn't get an MSRP committment from your dealer when you put down a deposit, there isn't anything anyone else can do for you. If you decide to pay $81,000.00 for a $40,000.00 car when other dealers are selling it for actual MSRP then you made that decision on your own. Quote all the resources you wish. I'm sorry you spent the time to prove a point that is only relevant to someone who believes they will have to pay over MSRP for a car.

Here's your open forum and your dead horse to beat. Go at it guys.

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A more true statement I dont think I have ever heard :D

(I dont think he should have closed the thread, but I love the response!)
 

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JML, This guy was SERIOUS about selling his spot? I know we've all kidded a bit, but I know I for one would cry every time I saw one on the street if I gave up my spot.

Cade
 
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