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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Everyone,
Does anyone know of a parts supplier that has both the rear brembo calipers in the US?

Thank you in advance!
Jason
 

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S4s
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@jfitz981
Supposedly the Gen 1 Dodge Viper and Gen 1 Elise had the same rear caliper. Those calipers were very difficult to acquire back then too.I tried ordering the Elise Gen 1 calipers through Rock Auto about 4 years ago. [A-1 CARDONE 191263 (19-1263) & A-1 CARDONE 191262 (19-1262)]. But the mouth ended up being about 10mm too small to fit brake pads in them and then over the rotor. I might have made a mistake when ordering; however, the key thing I was after was the piston inside of the caliper. I had a shop hone out the old caliper's cylinder walls and then they transferred over the new pistons into the old calipers. Worked well, except the shop somehow got the ratcheting innards backwards on one of the calipers, so that took another attempt to fix it.

At the time, JAE said they could get some refurbished calipers too. It might be worth checking with them and the other Esprit parts shops.
 

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My understanding is that if you run the Elise rear calipers you have to run the Elise rear brake pads which are thinner. I thought this was because the rotors were thicker. But if you were running the stock S4s rear discs that should not be an issue??

I believe if you look at the brake options at PNM they offer the rear Elise rotors for the Esprit and describe that you need the thinner Elise rear pads to go with the thicker rotors.

I am soon going to attempt to bolt Elise rear calipers and rotors (purchased used) on my S4 with Toyota brakes and will report what I find out. They are cheap enough that I can do the experiment and not lose out too bad if it does not work.
 

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S4s
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My understanding is that if you run the Elise rear calipers you have to run the Elise rear brake pads which are thinner. I thought this was because the rotors were thicker. But if you were running the stock S4s rear discs that should not be an issue??

I believe if you look at the brake options at PNM they offer the rear Elise rotors for the Esprit and describe that you need the thinner Elise rear pads to go with the thicker rotors.

I am soon going to attempt to bolt Elise rear calipers and rotors (purchased used) on my S4 with Toyota brakes and will report what I find out. They are cheap enough that I can do the experiment and not lose out too bad if it does not work.
Smaller pads and rotors would likely work. At the time, I was in a hurry, on a budget, and running out of time to get my brake issue sorted out about a week before LOG 35. Luckily, a workable solution was found with the parts I had in hand, that I don't think anyone had explored yet. Those years of watching MacGyver paid off!
 

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Acme Super Moderator ** The Enforcer **
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They're literally boat anchors. In the sprit of Colin, I'd find something else.

San
 

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Discussion Starter #6
@jfitz981
Supposedly the Gen 1 Dodge Viper and Gen 1 Elise had the same rear caliper. Those calipers were very difficult to acquire back then too.I tried ordering the Elise Gen 1 calipers through Rock Auto about 4 years ago. [A-1 CARDONE 191263 (19-1263) & A-1 CARDONE 191262 (19-1262)]. But the mouth ended up being about 10mm too small to fit brake pads in them and then over the rotor. I might have made a mistake when ordering; however, the key thing I was after was the piston inside of the caliper. I had a shop hone out the old caliper's cylinder walls and then they transferred over the new pistons into the old calipers. Worked well, except the shop somehow got the ratcheting innards backwards on one of the calipers, so that took another attempt to fix it.

At the time, JAE said they could get some refurbished calipers too. It might be worth checking with them and the other Esprit parts shops.
Thank you for this info!

I emailed JAE and for such small calipers.....they are expensive! Wow,
 

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Discussion Starter #8
My understanding is that if you run the Elise rear calipers you have to run the Elise rear brake pads which are thinner. I thought this was because the rotors were thicker. But if you were running the stock S4s rear discs that should not be an issue??

I believe if you look at the brake options at PNM they offer the rear Elise rotors for the Esprit and describe that you need the thinner Elise rear pads to go with the thicker rotors.

I am soon going to attempt to bolt Elise rear calipers and rotors (purchased used) on my S4 with Toyota brakes and will report what I find out. They are cheap enough that I can do the experiment and not lose out too bad if it does not work.
Definitely keep me posted! Are you doing this in the near future?
 

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Integrator
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Definitely keep me posted! Are you doing this in the near future?
Elise or Viper, the same *%#@y one cylinder caliper. Good as an e-brake, that's all.
Spend money effectively and get some "adult" 4-pot calipers off the Evora, or at least Hi-Spec-s.
Any change like this one has to be done as a part of the well thought and calculated "system". FYI: I have AP Racing massive CP5200 at the front, so I was severely front biased.
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1256637
1256638

Something to ponder...
 

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What no one has talked about is how such "improved" brakes might affect your brake bias.... these cars don't have an adjustment knob you know. Y'all want to discuss bias? My thought is: go ahead, screw it up, it ain't my car .....but some people talk a lot and realize little....the older I get the more I realize I've made similar mistakes out of ignorance
 

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I have seen the evora calipers on Ebay, and wondered what diameter and thickness of rotors they take? They sure look nice.
 

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Eyerace is correct. Just because you can make brake parts fit is no measure of how they will work. Car engineers go to great lengths to get brake bias "just right". You won't know how wrong it is till you get near the operating limits and find out in a hurry! The size of the piston in the brake caliper is a major factor in how much braking force a caliper can apply. Doubling up pistons of the same size gives you LESS braking power, not more. if you are going to experiment you probably need a proportioning valve but that is not an easy thing to do with ABS.
David Teitelbaum
 

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Integrator
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I have seen the evora calipers on Ebay, and wondered what diameter and thickness of rotors they take? They sure look nice.
Erik,
They take 320- 340mm dia, my rears are 26mm thick. Max thickness... dunno. I will measure it tomorrow. Often you can find
1256654
nice APR or Alcon bedded rotors on eBay. Comp Brake 6 pot calipers are the best bang for the buck, you pay double for the name brands. If you know what you want and have time/patience, you can piece together a killer system from the flea-bay paying ~1000 bucks per axle.
 

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What no one has talked about is how such "improved" brakes might affect your brake bias.... these cars don't have an adjustment knob you know. Y'all want to discuss bias? My thought is: go ahead, screw it up, it ain't my car .....but some people talk a lot and realize little....the older I get the more I realize I've made similar mistakes out of ignorance
Eyerace is correct. Just because you can make brake parts fit is no measure of how they will work. Car engineers go to great lengths to get brake bias "just right". You won't know how wrong it is till you get near the operating limits and find out in a hurry! The size of the piston in the brake caliper is a major factor in how much braking force a caliper can apply. Doubling up pistons of the same size gives you LESS braking power, not more. if you are going to experiment you probably need a proportioning valve but that is not an easy thing to do with ABS.
David Teitelbaum
You are both assuming that the original bias chosen by Lotus was optimal?
It was definitely not optimal.
 

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Integrator
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You are both assuming that the original bias chosen by Lotus was optimal?
It was definitely not optimal.

+1 Travis!
I admire your set!

Lotus was not an Oracle.
I have compiled a list of 52 (so far) blatant FUBARs they commited.
Brake system is one of them... Unsafe at Any Speed !
 

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I agree. Brake bias aside, I also found the brake system Lotus used at least on my car, to be outright dangerous at any speed. I guess that 4 180mm drum brakes from the 1960'ies would be more efficient - which they are not.
Clean up the whole system - no effect. New DOT4 fluid - no effect. New pads - no effect. New calipers - no effect. New brake hoses - no effect. Test for leaks in vacuum system, making sure everything is in perfect order - no effect. Better brake pads (again) - no effect. New discs - no effect.
322mm vented aluminium bell'ed disc on all four corners, new better Hawk pads all corners, 4 piston calipers on all 4 corners, braided hoses all over, and the usual FOT4 fluid - that works. Now the car can brake. Well, better at least. I would still like more initial grip.
On brake bias, I may install a bias regulator to find the sweet spot.
Cheers,
Redfox
 

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I have so much Brake envy!

Folks I was going down the path of trying to copy Travis' set up but I could not find the identical calipers at any kind of reasonable cost. Still keeps me awake at night :)
 
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