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USA Today - CA Smog rules




If this goes through, will it cause performance to drop in future cars (and costs to rise) while the manufacturers figure out how to deal with this?

It may make current cars (any type of performance car, not just Elises) more valuable in the short term, if these regs cause a significant performance hit.



DLY
 

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Couple points about auto emissions and statistics...

1) Emissions. If you look into it, most of our auto emissions from a given car come from the first two minutes after a cold start. That's why grouping errands is a good idea - to avoid many new cold starts. It's also healthier for your car. After the first two minutes, mostly hot air and water vapor come out of the pipes. If you see a car spewing out visible pollution, it's contributing as much pollution as a *few thousand* properly operating vehicles. But we are not allowed to do anything about the gross polluters. There are 2-3 in my town that make as much pollutions as the whole rest of the town.

2) Statistics: If you think about it, you can cut new car emissions from time to time by 25 % and never "finish".
 

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Stan, you are absolutely right about the emissions (cold start), etc., esp. with today's modern cars (not so sure about trucks/SUVs, and probably not true for diesels?) and about the gross polluters (kinda ties back in with MW's thread about Schwartzenegger's signing of the bill doing away with the 30-year rolling exemption.)

Not sure what you're getting at with your second point, I think that I agree that one could perpetually reduce by 25% and never be "done", which in fact is why today's cars are so much cleaner, especially Honda, and others, with their SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emisssions Vehicles).

Cheers, Mike
 

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>>>Not sure what you're getting at with your second point, I think that I agree that one could perpetually reduce by 25% and never be "done", which in fact is why today's cars are so much cleaner, especially Honda, and others, with their SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emisssions Vehicles). <<<

Well politicians have been making similar claims for decades...they still are making the same claims. The present 25% cuts are not taking that much more pollution out of the exhaust of those cars since when warmed up they are already vanishingly low.
 

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I don't think the 25% reduction targets traditional emissions, but rather, CO2. The only way to meet that goal is to improve gas mileage. When you look at the number of SUVs in CA, it's hard to argue against that goal! The Elise shows that a car can perform well and still get great gas mileage.
 

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california is full of sh*t!

What about all those transport semis, school buses and all those big ass trucks that use diesel? those put out so much more than pretty much all cars combined.
 

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To add to the atrocity, since SUVs are classified as trucks and not cars, they already have looser emissions regulations *and* the new law is cutting them more slack:

USA Today said:
Under the regulations, the auto industry must cut exhaust from cars and light trucks by 25% and from larger trucks and sport utility vehicles by 18%.
How much sense does that make? SUVs and larger trucks are burning more fuel and have less stringent emissions requirements. Stupid stupid stupid. Want to make meaningful progress on emissions? Hold *all* passenger vehicles and light delivery vehicles (lorries, UHAULS, etc) to the same standards as cars.

But then I guess the Governator's next Hummer wouldn't be as powerful...

Jim
 

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jtanner said:
To add to the atrocity, since SUVs are classified as trucks and not cars, they already have looser emissions regulations *and* the new law is cutting them more slack:
This kind of favoratism just infuriates me.

I can buy a 6000+ lb luxury SUV, write it off entirely as a deductable "Farm Equipment" business expense, be totally exempt from the Guzzler Tax, pay "car" tolls at the bridge, AND I get to flaunt any of those No-Truck signs that limit residential road use to 6000 lbs. All with total impunity.

How did we let this happen? How exactly do road and bridge weight limits not apply to a truck if it's driven by a soccer mom with an image problem?

There's a dude in our neighborhood with a truck so huge it won't fit in his own garage or large driveway.. Ford F950 or something. He's trying to convince the HOA to let him have a piece of the street for his own privilaged parking, since hey, he drives a big truck.

I'm all for freedom and choice -- drive whatever you like, but this sort of fungible state law just makes me angry. Gas Guzzler Tax should either be repealed or apply to every guzzler. Weight limits should be based on scales, not style. No vehicle should be tax deductable at all.

Ground Loop for Gov.. Thank you.
 

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shay2nak said:
What about all those transport semis, school buses and all those big ass trucks that use diesel? those put out so much more than pretty much all cars combined.
Yep. And for you non-Californians who don't know about this stuff, get this - diesel cars are exempt from smog checks. They can pollute all they want, with no consequences.
 

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Ground Loop said:
How did we let this happen? How exactly do road and bridge weight limits not apply to a truck if it's driven by a soccer mom with an image problem?
Simple. Laws are not created objectively and analytically. Special interests rule, and the majority of citizens are too uninvolved to care. :(
 

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Ground Loop said:
This kind of favoratism just infuriates me.

I can buy a 6000+ lb luxury SUV, write it off entirely as a deductable "Farm Equipment" business expense, be totally exempt from the Guzzler Tax, pay "car" tolls at the bridge, AND I get to flaunt any of those No-Truck signs that limit residential road use to 6000 lbs. All with total impunity.

How did we let this happen? How exactly do road and bridge weight limits not apply to a truck if it's driven by a soccer mom with an image problem?

There's a dude in our neighborhood with a truck so huge it won't fit in his own garage or large driveway.. Ford F950 or something. He's trying to convince the HOA to let him have a piece of the street for his own privilaged parking, since hey, he drives a big truck.

I'm all for freedom and choice -- drive whatever you like, but this sort of fungible state law just makes me angry. Gas Guzzler Tax should either be repealed or apply to every guzzler. Weight limits should be based on scales, not style. No vehicle should be tax deductable at all.

Ground Loop for Gov.. Thank you.
If no vehicle were tax deductible at all,delivery and service companies would not reinvest their capital into buying new vehicles as a capital expense of running a business,delivery and service vehicles would get older....more disrepair and eventually all companies (large and small) could no longer afford to do business and eventually cease to exist.
 

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Piano,
You don't think their's a way to prevent this loophole from being abused as it is now?, Haven't seen many H2s, suburbans, Navigators hauling manure on the farm.

Obviously legitimate BUSINESS vehicles should have some exemptions, but Buffy using her Navigator to pick up Heather and Courtney after school is not one of them.

I do have to laugh every time gas goes up and these selfsame people are screaming about how expensive gas is. Don't worry tho, suspect George W will release the strategic reserves just before the election to drop gas prices and give people a reason to vote for him.

Chris
 

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MattG said:
Yep. And for you non-Californians who don't know about this stuff, get this - diesel cars are exempt from smog checks. They can pollute all they want, with no consequences.
Diesel cars are exempt from smog checks in California, but you can't buy a new diesel car there. Or at least you can't buy a new VW TDI of any flavor in California. There is a big market for slightly used VW TDIs from the midwest for sale to people in California.
 
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