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Look...had this chassis been made of mild steel, it would have been perfectly acceptable. There's your, awe, gee...we tried our best...
Given this is a car... and that Lotus anticipate that it could be damaged (including scratched)... there is actually a definition of acceptable damage in the service manual. The chassis is considered serviceable as long as any damage to the chassis is not "significant bending, tearing or distortion" and that the correct alignment can be achieved by the standard range of adjustment. Minor cosmetic damage is repairable.

On that basis I am confident, as is Daniel (clearly), that those scratches are not structurally damaging.

A significant amount of my aircraft structural repairs are from photographs... try to justify it as you like. I'd still love to pay his life insurance policy.
Honestly you could be the worlds greatest aircraft structural engineer and materials scientist... you could even be right in this case!!!!!!

But sadly the arrogant way in which you conduct yourself on this forum - combined with multiple times where your opinion has been called into question by well respected experts on this forum - means that no one takes any notice of what you say.


I believe I have suggested in the past that you think and read more and post less... please give this some serious consideration.
 

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Ask any engineer trained in aircraft structures for a second opinion if you don't like mine... they are the only ones knowledgeable about aluminum construction.
Nope, engineers trained in aircraft structures are not the only ones knowledgeable about aluminum construction. If this were the case you should not have bought a Lotus, I am fairly sure the engineers that designed the chassis are not aircraft engineers.

Look, there is only one commonality between an aircraft structure and an Elige chassis. They are both made from aluminum. Being the expert you keep telling us you are, you should know just how different they are as far a material sections, construction techniques, loading, stresses, etc.

Apples and oranges.
 

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I think part of the issue here is experience... or lack thereof with the Lotus 111 chassis...

To the uninitiated, the Lotus chassis may seem daunting to repair. I've seen a lot of Lotus 111s come through the shop. Some of the chassis have had a LOT of abuse from shunts on the track and street. In every case, the fixes I've seen have not been pretty with many of the "rules" I've read about in this thread broken by whoever fixed these cars. Welding, bending, fish plating, etc... Some of these cars have been subsequently worked out on the track with stiff suspension, racing conditions, etc with no signs of strain from the various repairs.


-Phil
 

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I've been studying this, and I think I get what McSquiggles is saying. The wheel rate (320 vs 400 in the example) is in fact due to the motion ratio. And that wheel rate is dependent on its lateral position. Before I go further, JJ or anyone else, is that correct?
 

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The suspension quadrilateral (upper/lower control arms; chassis attach points; upright) of the suspension geometry does not change...that is fixed and does not change unless something is physically changed within that quadrilateral...the coil-over shock is within that quadrilateral. The lateral position (really its effective lateral position) of the wheel is the center-line (of the wheel/tire) to ground contact point. Chamber angle moves that point inboard or outboard. In a dynamic situation (in relation to the canter of mass) changes how much load is transferred because your wheel moves in/out in relation to the center of mass point...lever arm changes.

The wheel ratio is defined by that quadrilateral...wheel axle movement with respect to shock stroke...so wheel offset has no influence on that ratio.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Hey. been super busy.

Very happy today, as the car went for alignment. toe was adjusted according to the specs, wasn't actually far off at all, only .16 degrees, so happy on that front.

also wanted to see how caster and camber where at, specially at the front. Front camber is up to spec, right is only .17 degrees of from left. might play with shims to level them up but seem ok.

Caster however was outside specs, however both are very close. Will also try to play with the shims. I took pics of the shims before taking the wishbones out...but cant seem to find them, so not sure how they were before.

other than that, car is done. crash structure is on its way and its the last part before we can assemble everything.

Still hesitant with the front clam... not sure if repair it or buy it new. I have had quotes for about 2,000 USD including paint... but not sure yet.

Here are some pics of today:



and the final alignment specs.



not really expert on alignment... but all seems good.

And finally, this type of repairs will always be seen as a love or hate thing, specially by people who know this stuff and people who dont. Sadly, voicing out the opinion from some pictures and not seeing the reality of things make it very difficult to properly assess whats going on. I know engineers are difficult to please, specially those who work in extremely technical industries. It would be great to have <@¿@> (dont really know your name) here assessing the project..but again... cant really tell over the internet how experienced you are. The person I entrusted this project has a very credible and impecable track record; worked for two major airlines as chief of the structural shop and also for the air-force fixing combat planes. I trust this individual and at the end of the day it would be mad to take the word from a complete stranger over a proven and certified structural engineer.

Not saying that this will never fail....its really uncharted territories, but i feel the technical level and preparation before this project started will for sure help in having an outcome that will ve very close to whats technically possible in this case.

will keep you posted.

best!

Daniel
 

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Congrats Daniel,

Hopefully you'll be back on the road with that Euro exhaust sticking out the back soon! :)

-Adam
 

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I would strongly suggest removing the clam at least once a year to inspect those 6 joints. Take photos and post them here... along with the mileage of the car. And do mention if tracked or spirited driving was involved. This would be a great data point... since we are experimenting anyway.

If you click on any user in this group, a drop down comes out... choose public profile and see what they say about themselves...
 

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Discussion Starter #91
For those that might find this useful one day!

Its been 1 year now since the cars was completely put together and on the road. I've put about 2K miles in the last year

Been doing routine inspections to the front clip, looking for cracks, etc. Have been to 3 track days, racking up about 300 miles of track time on R888. Im happy that under pretty much the hardest conditions and stress levels, the chasis held up.

So far so good! holding up fine. Had the car aligned last week and all was still in spec!

Will keep updating!
 

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Discussion Starter #93
Been away from the forum for a while, but wanted to give an update. It's been almost 4 years since the repair. Not many miles ~4k, but several track days on R-compounds. Just before all of this pandemic stuff, had the front clam removed to do some inspection. All the bonds seem to be holding up fine, had it aligned again on the new set-up (bought a set of Nankang AR1s) hope to test those soon and compare to the R888R at the track.

Will keep posted
 

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Been away from the forum for a while, but wanted to give an update. It's been almost 4 years since the repair. Not many miles ~4k, but several track days on R-compounds. Just before all of this pandemic stuff, had the front clam removed to do some inspection. All the bonds seem to be holding up fine, had it aligned again on the new set-up (bought a set of Nankang AR1s) hope to test those soon and compare to the R888R at the track.

Will keep posted
Glad to hear you're back on the road Daniel, and hope you like the exhaust :)
 

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Thanks for updating, read through the whole thread. MrSquiggles was such a downer..and look...your car is still performing great.
 

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Been away from the forum for a while, but wanted to give an update. It's been almost 4 years since the repair. Not many miles ~4k, but several track days on R-compounds. Just before all of this pandemic stuff, had the front clam removed to do some inspection. All the bonds seem to be holding up fine, had it aligned again on the new set-up (bought a set of Nankang AR1s) hope to test those soon and compare to the R888R at the track.

Will keep posted
It would be nice if you could post a "finished" pic of your car to show your success!
 

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Been away from the forum for a while, but wanted to give an update. It's been almost 4 years since the repair. Not many miles ~4k, but several track days on R-compounds. Just before all of this pandemic stuff, had the front clam removed to do some inspection. All the bonds seem to be holding up fine, had it aligned again on the new set-up (bought a set of Nankang AR1s) hope to test those soon and compare to the R888R at the track.

Will keep posted
Hi Daniel,

Great to hear the latest update! I was confident in that outcome from the beginning given the planning and then hard work you put into the repair. This thread needs to be kept for posterity as I'm sure it will used as the basis for future repairs as these wonderful cars get older.

Keep safe and look forward to the next update!!

Best regards,
Steve

PS: you'll no doubt be relieved to learn that McSquiggles has been permanently banned from this site. His arrogance and belligerence, coupled with the amount of misinformation he sprouted finally pushed us too far.
 
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