The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know they are not "stock". I guess a stereo shop could certainly fab BIG f/g enclosures and stick them over the original holes - i get that. What I don't get is how the heck does the stock rear panel? still cover, dress the back wall? (Because it does, perfectly)I have JL subs in those holes. You could park a car in them. How did they do this to me? Anyone? It's like space and time have been warped... String Theory? (You know ...like when you tie a string on the old oil lines to pull the new ones thru...)
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,637 Posts
I think with all the other anomalies associated with your car, it may have been something they were playing with pre-production. I think someone hypothesized your car was one of the original demos in the US, perhaps they wanted a better quality of sound out of the demo models.
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
jesus. That's too cool if true. It would mean I got factory pre-production sub enclosures in the rear! Sounds pretty good too!
I have documents that show the car was delivered with 10 miles on it to the original owner. And dates that indicate Lotus Cars USA purchased the car from Hethel, 11 days before delivery to the original owner. So that sort of eliminates a US demo car. My guess it was done & tested at Hethel, they learned what they wanted to learn, and when done with it (whatever the heck they were doing - evaluating/testing?)), they put it on the boat to sell at retail rather than scrap it or write it off. They sold the lab car, or one of the lab cars, if there were more cars. Then I ended up with it.
Have to thank Phil for the discovery - when picking up the car he said - "not stock" in the list of "everything else" that was factory but non-stock, and let his JL guy look at it. Now Phil doesn't really get confused, but when he showed me that, he seemed like he was trying to figure it out too. I think he might have said it was the earliest car he had personally seen. My confusion was around the fact that the original owner had installed a sweet little all JL system, so I thought nothing of the fact that those boxes were that size. If not stock, the stereo installers did the fab. Until I realized the back panel was still a Lotus factory panel. (Tonight, I know I'm slow - owned the car for a year) Then I entered the Twilight Zone, and realized we might be in rare territory. I mean lab car ..ok. But lab car with factory deep holes in the back? Sweet.
It really had never occured to me that those might be non-stock, but factory pre-production, holes/boxes. wow. Until tonight.
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
downside, i guess is that if I end up needing a new factory rear bulkhead panel (really so not likely) - I'll be severely dissapointed. Same goes for the wiring harness, fuel tank, diffuser...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,161 Posts
Are you saying that your bulkhead is shaped differently? Or that the holes are cut larger? I ordered a Trim Shop bulkhead covered in factory microfibre (like the lining of the touring soft top and the only one they ever made like this), and the speaker holes in it were much larger than the original panel. This did allow me to fit larger speakers without any significant modification. I kept hearing about lack of clearance behind the bulkhead, but only a little foam trimming was necessary, and your car proves there is quite a bit of space back there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,930 Posts
Those speakers you have require a sealed enclosure to function at their best.
Someone has attempted to fabricate an enclosure. Not a factory add on. imho
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,637 Posts
Jim, I normally would not disagree with you on anything, but, this car is a strange duck. It was chocked full of bits from the factory that screams proto or factory mule car. One-off fuel tank, extra instrumentation wiring in the harness with some of the bits left, etc. The duct tape labelling of "croft". And very good documentation from the previous owner which goes all the way back to original purchase. And May 2004 production. I suspect the mechanic who was in it to install the REV400 kit was a bit perplexed by all the odd bits he ran across. It could have been an undocumented upgrade the original owner did, but the fact the rear bulkhead panel fits over the fiberglass boxes seems a bit odd. But then, I have never removed my rear bulkhead, perhaps there is a luxury of space behind it I am unaware of.
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
BOE was a bit perplexed or amused - not sure which - maybe both. Phil said he had never seen anything like it. (the car in totality). Phil also pointed out to me that he has seen more than a few cars, from all over the country and then some. When Phil pointed out the speakers to me (looking for an explanation) - i told him what i knew to be the truth. The oo had hired topnotch help to put in the stereo, i knew nothing personally about it. I figured what Jim said, they fabbed at the stereo shop. But could they fab a stock rear bulkhead modded for depth perfectly? Would they? What would it cost to fab one rear bulkhead, and who would do that? Who could do that? Aliens. It's the only logical answer.
If there is room enough to build out the boxes, add some type of spacer? along the rest of the back wall so that the original footprint/ stock rear panel could be re-installed, why aren't other people doing this? Can't be too hard right? Would definitely improve the sound without having to add the "big sub". Those rears sound good. Like a stereo should.

Funny thing is when first reading the group years ago, I kept running across the "stereo sucks, don't bother" comments, and when I got the car thought " boy those guys are picky - it's fine". .
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Those speakers you have require a sealed enclosure to function at their best.
Someone has attempted to fabricate an enclosure. Not a factory add on. imho
Yup - the subs definitely need a sealed enclosure. Phil said when his JL audio guy calculated the volume required to do the subs correctly, the cavity was still too small/unsealed or both. But he thought it was close enough to sound really good. I think the holes may have been designed for a more conventional 6/ 1/2" coaxial speaker,delivered with those speakers, but the original owner yanked those and had those 6 1/2" JL mini subs installed. If the stereo shop (hi end NYC) had built the enclosures, they would have sealed them if at all possible. Lotus in the lab, are you kidding?- no they would not have. I'm fine either way really, it's just been driving me a little bonkers because I would like to know the real story behind the car. Phil said he thought it was a "pet car of Lotus". What the heck does that mean? I hope it doesn't mean you can tell the car to "roll over" or "play dead". Although it will fetch. I'm just going to go back to enjoying the car.

Edit : Jim I just got your joke about "attempted to fabricate an enclosure", (actually you weren't joking were you?)
Isn't it possible to attempt a Thiele design for the boxes (not mine obviously) where we get more bass - out of less space. My Mesa Boogie guitar cabinets are all sealed Thiele cabs. Don't they have a port in them somewhere? Is it technically possible to use the existing space to deliver really good performance? Or is the odd shape of the space going to create standing waves that will kill it? Can we beef up the cabinet material from fiberglass to wood to actually provide a high density enclosure? Sorry for the book-
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Are you saying that your bulkhead is shaped differently? Or that the holes are cut larger? I ordered a Trim Shop bulkhead covered in factory microfibre (like the lining of the touring soft top and the only one they ever made like this), and the speaker holes in it were much larger than the original panel. This did allow me to fit larger speakers without any significant modification. I kept hearing about lack of clearance behind the bulkhead, but only a little foam trimming was necessary, and your car proves there is quite a bit of space back there.
wow - i guess what i am saying (still trying to figure it out) is that the boxes appear to have been built "out". I got the clear impression from Phil's pictures that the boxes had been built out - away from the firewall - massive volume increase over whatever stock is. I thought since they were built "out" another inch or two - or three, that the stock panel would not, could not be reinstalled over the box's protrusions. But i guess if there was room to build them "in" - back towards the firewall, then we have the answer. The stereo shop did it all (speakers, not the fuel tank/diffuser car's wiring harness etc). If that's the case - why isn't every Elise owner doing this? I assumed there was a lack of room in there, and was physicaly impossible to put big , deep speakers in there without entering the engine bay - . Hey everyone! There is room to put some big a$$ speakers in the rear! Maybe....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,161 Posts
I can't tell exactly from the photo, but based on the position of the hole relative to the seat belt reel, I think you have a standard bulkhead, with the speaker cabs built "in" and not out. When I removed mine to add soundproofing, I felt there was quite a bit more room back there than I had expected, based on comments. But, it's certainly not easily accessible, as it is oddly shaped, and was beyond my skills as it would require custom fabrication.

A custom shaped bulkhead - probably not for cars with harness bar - could be made and would allow for much more "stuff" behind, but that would just cause you to lose whatever storage space there is now. Hence, the custom designed cabinets that fit in front, though the storage loss is still an issue. And, you'd just be moving the speakers even closer to the back of the seats.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
6,305 Posts
Just chiming in real quick and then I gotta get back to work:eek:

-There were all sorts of odd bits and pieces, temperature indicators, etc on this car that I just haven't seen before... even on other early 05s. The wiring harness was even from a different vendor than others I've seen... anyway...

-Jim Clayton is the JL guy I was talking about. He's THE JL audio guy:up:

-I don't think the speaker boxes are from Lotus because the boxes blocked access to clam mounting bolts. Lotus is know for doing silly stuff, but that would take the cake. I DO think someone shelled out some serious coin for that stereo installation. The wiring was actually done well, and the glass work on the boxes was sturdy, properly formed for the space, and anchored right to the firewall. Those are all very rare traits for stereo installations---- at least the ones I've seen! :D

my 2 cents...

Phil
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
thanks Phil. I feel better knowing it wasn't aliens. And thanks Jim Clayton, who knew all along it wasn't aliens. Well - that's it then! The boxes were built "in", not "out", the standard rear bulkhead panel is reused, and there IS room to put some big a$$ speakers in the rear, if you can believe that. I had just assumed that if there was that much real estate available to do this - you other guys would have shouted it from the mountain tops by now. Apparently for all the squawking we do about standing on our heads to access the pedal box etc., the Elise is a totally roomy car!! So I guess nows the time to reinstall/relocate the stereo's power amp which had to be removed from the boot to do all the BOE upgrades...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,317 Posts
How big is the amp? I'm nearly certain i'm going to be able to fit my JL xd400/4 up underneath the dash... but i intentially bought one of the smallest amps i could find with the power i wanted.

I haven't taken a heat gun to the rear panel to see if it's hot workable (like the fender liners), but it's also possible that the rear panel was re-shaped a bit with heat to allow more space.

I personally love this idea to get more out of the rear speakers. I've got a carbon dash in my car and with 5.25's in the dash and 6's in the rear it's OBVIOUS how much more base i get out of the dash. In essence there's almost no base coming out of the rear speakers (since they're in such a flimsy structure) and i've checked wiring of them.
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
the amp is a JL A4300 Class AB 4 channel - somewhat low profile thing - weighs a ton. (Gonna have to pull the old coolers & lines to make up for the weight gain) I'm thinking it will fit behind the driver's seat on the wall w/ maybe just losing the last seat adjustment furthest back, 1 click. Maybe 2. I'm only 5'9" so I don't care. About time I popped the driver's seat anyway, there is enough change under there to finance the new head unit...apparently that is where I have been keeping my change...and I want one that will let me do rearview camera, without hitting the wiper stalk when it unfolds.
I have to relocate a little wiring , get the amp mounted, and i'll be back in business. Gotta lose the Blaupunkt though. Geez that thing is not intuitive to use. I too am blown away with the "hidden room" to do the rears. Like I said, I can't believe no one knew about this, the folks here have most of the car mapped out. I guess all that counts is that we now know...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Why not contact the Lotus factory & ask them what they know about your VIN?

As per this thread:

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f170/certificate-vehicle-provenance-117831/

Contact this lovely chap:

Andy Graham; Technical Publications and Archives
LOTUS AFTERSALES, Units 6 & 7 John Hyrne Way, Longwater Business Park, Costessey, Norwich, Norfolk NR5 0AF England.
T +44 (0)1603 732178 [email protected]
yup - thanks...more specifically i want the "key" to their parts numbering system , want to know what every character stands for. Want to know about those calenders that are stamped on all my parts too...
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
ok - just emailed Mr. Graham, and told him the entire story, attached pics and begged him to find out anything he could about the car relating to it's possible limited production status or engineering /QC role. It's well beyond the scope of their normal request for provenance, but maybe I'll get lucky. Also asked for a key to understanding their embossed calenders on the parts, and their hand written numbering system for the parts. I'm a "fine grain" kind of guy. I left out all the stuff about the possibility of alien intervention. Probably wise. I think its OK to joke around with you folks - you are sort of like family - but Lotus? I draw the line there.
 

·
Gamera The Atomic Turtle
Joined
·
3,349 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
well that did not take long...oh well

Dear Komiko, (name edit)

Thank you for your enquiry. The build book looks no different from any other Elise. It was not recorded as an engineering or development car.
Croft is the internal development name to identify it as a Federal market Elise.
The serial number 0134 simply indicates it is the 0134th ‘05MY Lotus model worldwide. All markets and all models now share the same serial number sequence.

Regards,
Andy Graham – Technical Publications and Archives
__________________________________________________

Actually, it probably couldn't be allowed to be in the "build book" if it was a shipped engineering car. I don't think you are allowed to ship those as production vehicles. If it was documented at all - the records would be kept internally.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top