The Lotus Cars Community banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
384 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got the January 2005 issue and the Elise didn't make the top 10. :eek:

It looks like they didn't really have a category for it, except for maybe Best Performance Car, which went to the C6.

But there is an odd picture at the end of the article of a MB Elise from behind with 10 of the editors standing in front of it, all looking at it. The Editor-in-Chief, Csaba Csere, is even pointing at it! No caption to the picture though. Maybe it means it's their sentimental favorite, but didn't know which category to put it in. :confused:

<img src="http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=127747">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
592 Posts
lateapex said:
Just got the January 2005 issue and the Elise didn't make the top 10. :eek:

It looks like they didn't really have a category for it, except for maybe Best Performance Car, which went to the C6.
Perhaps a lack of advertising budget with C&D :no:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,181 Posts
Could you honestly recommend an Elise to the readership of one of the best selling motor mags in the world (if not the best selling)? I could not. That's really what the 10 Best list is about.

Go to a random "sports car" message board. A certain Boxster board for example. I don't suppose many there would want to live with a car such as the Elise for day to day use or just for the weekends. The S2000, which has been on the 10 Best list, is considered a raw sports car in public perception.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Bear in mind that when the C&D editors reviewed the Elise, they thought the car was too raw for most enthusiasts. (They drove the car on bad Michigan roads.) The editors probably figured that most of the readership wanted a more well behaved sports car (i.e. S2000) instead of the no-compromises Elise.

Just my guess...

Bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
lateapex said:
Just got the January 2005 issue and the Elise didn't make the top 10. :eek:

It looks like they didn't really have a category for it, except for maybe Best Performance Car, which went to the C6.

But there is an odd picture at the end of the article of a MB Elise from behind with 10 of the editors standing in front of it, all looking at it. The Editor-in-Chief, Csaba Csere, is even pointing at it! No caption to the picture though. Maybe it means it's their sentimental favorite, but didn't know which category to put it in. :confused:

Not that I am asking anyone to break copywrite law here, (although, truth be told, I don't believe in it myself...) but sure would be nice if someone could scan the picture mentioned so that us guys w/o a caranddriver sub could take a look ... err... before we run right out and buy it ourselves ;)

-=cixel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,684 Posts
Re: Re: Car & Driver 10Best - no Elise, but...

cixelsyd said:
Not that I am asking anyone to break copywrite law here, (although, truth be told, I don't believe in it myself...)
hmmmmm wonder if you'd mind people stealing things you produce and depend upon to make your living. guess that could be extended to any of your possessions. :no:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Car & Driver 10Best

LotusLust said:
hmmmmm wonder if you'd mind people stealing things you produce and depend upon to make your living. guess that could be extended to any of your possessions. :no:

I decline the invitation to discuss the different between intellectual property and physical property. I must say, that seems too essentialist for me, and I reject your tisk-tisking in my general direction.

As a professional academic, I certainly understand all scholarship is built on the shoulders of other people ... and that non-commercial use of creative and intellectual material should be encouraged. Only by freeing and promoting the wide spread of ideas, scholarship, and information can we grow and move forward as a group of people. Citing sources as a part of this process is a technical necessity so that others can reproduce and verify one's own work.

I certainly believe that the similarity between the production of scholarly material and the production of creative or intellectual property (also protected by copywrite law) IS an effective illustration of my point.

The gap between someone breaking into my garage and stealing the Elise that I worked so hard to buy, and posting a copywrited photograph (with proper attributions to its author/creator) for creative/progressive commentary is wide and deep.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
727 Posts
cixelsyd

So, suppose you spent several hundred hours assisting your chief professor write a textbook in your field because he promised you 50% of the profits. After you finished, he decided not to publish hardcopies. He just makes a .pdf and gives it to anyone taking the course. That would be OK?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,664 Posts
The logic is flawed on both ends of this discussion on copyrights...

In this case, the best thing to do would be to offer a PDF for people to purchase, of which the purchase price reflects the lack of production costs associated with a PDF as opposed to a printed copy. Piracy would be no worse with a somehow "secured" PDF than it would already have been with a printed copy being thrown on a xerox machine or in a scanner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
I think the real underlying issue is:
"Is the fruit of your labor your property? When does it *stop* being your property?"

I make funriture out of wood. It's mine, I made it, and you can't have it, and I can say what happens to it. I can sell it for whatever price I set and no one else is allowd to sell it without my permission. They can go make their own!


I spend hours (and lots of money on gear) to get a perfect photograph. I made it, it's mine, but after I sell exactly one copy, then the holder of the image I sold can kill the market with far easier to make free copies. Aside from the cost of buying the image from me, their cost to make copies is far less than mine.

According to this idea, photographers, programmers, musicians have to recoup all of their costs on the first single item they sell.

I'll leave it up to the individual if this is right or not.

"Who will help me *eat* this bread?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
nuance ... excellent

I think that all your replies contain merit, but would like to call your attention to the phrase "non-commercial" in the post clarifying my stance on copywrite law.

To respond in order: If I helped someone write a book, and instead of charging a profit for it, we decided to give it away to scholars/students who used our information and cited our book/study, then yes: that would be OK with me. I would have a problem with my partner changing the project midstream (from for-profit to non-profit), but that is a different discussion.

As for posting excerpts from books, pictures, diagrams, magazines, newspapers, etc on a forum for public discussion: fair use is indeed a fuzzy category but one that needs to be expanded rather than categorically defined. Having said that, however, I stand by my previous statement and say that as long as citations are provided and the purpose is clearly non-commercial, copywrite law should be no barrier to the free and unfettered exchange of information.

As for photography, I agree that it is a difficult problem, and one (as you rightly pointed out!) made worse by the continual march of technology. It is one that is being faced by the RIAA and the MPAA as well. Unfortunately, what it comes down to is that yes - artists need to get paid for their works but if their opus is easily transmitted, copied, or modified in the digital domain then they need to structure their profit motives and profit mechanisms to deal with that. That is simply the reality of the world we live in. The spread of art via the digital world does nothing more than promote and enhance the status and renound of artists and the teams that create it. Instead of whining about not getting paid due to profligate low resolution copies, focus on creating mechanisms to utilize information flow to sell actual prints or originals instead.

-=cixel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
...and thanks for your thoughts!

I respect your views, and wanted to say that i love the different discussions on this board and the people involved. who would have guessed Elise ownership would contain so many perks! *grin*

-=cixel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
There's so much gobbldy-**** about 10 "best" what then does best mean? Best handling, best price, best looks (this does not need to be editorlised at all, I have eyes and can decide for myself), best gas mileage, many cars these guys drive as "best" nobody but a few can ever afford. The elise will be one of the 10 best cars of all time I feel due to the purest feel. Look at Musclecars now, I drove one as a daily driver for 20 years that also did 12.06 @116 in the 1/4 mile on street tires and mufflers, no A/C no Heater, although it was easier to get in and out of than the Elise, but back to my point, the Camaro that I drove for 20 years is now worth ~ 500% more than it sold for new. My view is buy it for yourself and let the others figure it out in 30 years what they missed and then we can sell our worn out Elise to them for $300,000 or more and get the next "great car" and drive the hell outta it for 30 years. Jokes on them!
 

·
shay2nak
Joined
·
25,134 Posts
Exactly, only time and its owners will tell how great this car is. Not some magazine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,150 Posts
I look forward topicking another Elise up once the next generation dents it's immediate value. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
Since when is there an optional "w" in "copyright"?:D
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top