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My only question about LSS is how stiff. John we drove the same 111S. I'm not familiar with the S2000 ride, found the Elise very forgiving. Hit one hard bump that caused the what I think was the body panels to make a rather nasty noise, the ride felt fine. My understanding is Lotus added a bit more compliance to the Fed Elise, to allow for the rougher roads here (std setup).

Lotus seems to be stressing the Sports package as not being suitable for the street. Tend to think there being a bit conservative in there approach. Most likely those of us use to upgraded, stiffer suspension will be fine with it. If it's a daily driver or you've got lots of beat-up streets it may be a different matter. Like everyone else we'll have to wait to find out.
 
I've been talking with LCU with my order due the end of this week and going back and forth about the LSS. The description was as follows..................

"The standard Elise will ride like a Z4 (the benchmark used by the engineers). The Sport Package car will ride like a Sport 190." I was also assured that just because the car will ride like a Z4, doesn't mean it will handle like one. The target number for the std car is 1.0G and 1.2 (as noted above) for the Sport pkg.

I need to make my decision by Friday and am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I will be using my car almost daily for 9 months out of the year so I do need to be carful that I'm not going to kill myself with a "track suspension". I think I may have to leave this one up to my wife.
 
The people who can drive better then be standard Elise can (which there are probably not many) should be the only ones who consider the LSS. The LSS IMHO should not be purchased to make you a better driver.
 
John Stimson said:
... Shocks can be optimized for a smooth ride, or keeping the tires in contact with the ground over bumps, but not both. ...
True but I think the substantially lighter LSS wheels will mitigate some of the harshness that changing the suspension alone would normally introduce. If these changes were applied to the heavier standard wheels I'm sure the LSS would be completely unacceptable.

Jim
 
IMHO, there are very people going into a Elise that can out drive the std setup. While we shouldn't let anyone get in over there head, I'll leave it up to them to make there own choices. :)
 
Guys,

You need to remember that Lotus has a long history of isolating the driver from the suspension by buffering the chassis. The M100 was a perfect example of this with the "raft" concept which really was just further development of the process used by Lotus since the early 60's. By isolating the driver from the chassis, the rates could be stiffened in order to achieve a better track performance. In the M100, this almost entierly eliminated torque steer commonly present in FWD cars. I believe the Elise however no longer uses the backbone chassis and therefore may not be tuned the same way.
 
wallabyguy said:
I need to make my decision by Friday and am on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
You know, maybe it's not such a horrible thing that I'm far down the list, as all you guys get to be guinea pigs. Oh yeah, I'll keep telling myself that to make myself feel better. ;)
 
John Stimson said:
Tim, I'm not sure which Miata you have, but in the case of the R-package, the ride harshness was due to extremely high damping rates in the Bilstein shocks. The sport suspensions in the 2nd generation cars used Bilstein shocks with much less aggressive rates, and some people consider the ride to be smoother than the base suspension with the standard shocks.
My R Package Miata is a '94 - the first year. I really don't think it's that much stiffer than "regular", and I like it...

Tim Mullen
 
wallabyguy said:
I've been talking with LCU with my order due the end of this week and going back and forth about the LSS. The description was as follows..................

"The standard Elise will ride like a Z4 (the benchmark used by the engineers). The Sport Package car will ride like a Sport 190." I was also assured that just because the car will ride like a Z4, doesn't mean it will handle like one. The target number for the std car is 1.0G and 1.2 (as noted above) for the Sport pkg.

I need to make my decision by Friday and am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I will be using my car almost daily for 9 months out of the year so I do need to be carful that I'm not going to kill myself with a "track suspension". I think I may have to leave this one up to my wife.
Wallabyguy, I skipped the LSS option even though I thought I would get it. See why in did and what Arnie said in the link below:

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1696&perpage=20&pagenumber=3
 
For clarity, the comments are quoted below:

I had wondered like many of you about LSS. Arnie said, "LSS is not suitable for road use and is really considered to be a track only setup." It is far too rough for use on the streets.
He also discouraged my dealer from getting his demo with LSS because he felt it would scare away too many customers.
Bottom line - If the Liz will be strictly a track car for you then you want the LSS. If it will see any street use get the standard setup.

Remember the standard S2 suspension is the same as the LSS suspension from the S1.
And

Regarding the LSS option, Nick Adams told me that Lotus' philosophy is that an Elise with LSS is not really "upgraded", just "different". The LSS option is really for those who live very close to a track and intend to drive it that short distance, have their fun on the track, and then drive home. Or, trailer it.

The natural inclination from many of us as customers is that the more we pay, the better the car will be. Nick told me that for someone using the car as a daily driver on typical U.S. roads, the LSS really isn't suitable, unless that driver is really a "hairshirt", that is someone who is willing to suffer quite a lot.
Three questions:

What's a hairshirt?

Is it possible that Lotus is being overly conservative in an effort to minimize backlash of the car being unlivable?

Since the LSS springs are bumped by 10%, which isn't huge (my spring on my M3 were bumped over 100% in stiffness) I can only assume that the LSS uses vastly different valving. Have we got any comments from Lotus on valving changes? As I play with the valving on my DA Konis, I can make the ride downright brutal and unforgiving, while in its standard settings its pretty daily driveable.
 
For the record, I have talked it over with my wife and we decided that in order to make the car truly a daily driver, the sport suspension was out. So it'll be:

Blue (black interior)
touring package
hardtop

Order goes in tomorrow at PSSC. I'm in public position #1 (the owner has a car on order and somehow I think I got bumped from #1 overall to #1 for public sale)

and with the $2500 I saved in no0t getting the sport suspension, I can add driving lights and a sport exhaust and still have enough for a couple of weekend roadtrips.
 
JD,

I have an interview set up for next Friday (with only a little Elise content). It will focus on vintage Lotuses, restoration and racing. There may be some updates regarding the Elise over the next few weeks, but nothing significant until mid April-early May when I can get my hands on a media "production" car. I'm trying to schedule covering some of the east coast Lotus events this year as well as starting a ongoing road trip/ long term test of the Elise when my car arrives in late May/ early June.
 
wallabyguy said:
JD,

I have an interview set up for next Friday (with only a little Elise content). It will focus on vintage Lotuses, restoration and racing. There may be some updates regarding the Elise over the next few weeks, but nothing significant until mid April-early May when I can get my hands on a media "production" car. I'm trying to schedule covering some of the east coast Lotus events this year as well as starting a ongoing road trip/ long term test of the Elise when my car arrives in late May/ early June.
Looking forward to it.
Would'nt it be nice if there would be an East coast meet and autocross in say, Virginia before next winter. Somebody ought to put something together. Maybe Lotus Ltd. could put something together?
 
frayed said:
Is it possible that Lotus is being overly conservative in an effort to minimize backlash of the car being unlivable?

If it was a Cadillac rep telling me a car rode rough I would take it with a grain of salt. When a Lotus rep tells me a car rides rough I take their word for it. That's why I choose not to get the LSS. I was gonna get it, but changed my mind and I'm no wimp. My Jeep has a horrible ride but I got the impression the LSS would ride worst. Plus being so low it will not like bumps and potholes.

I weighed the good and the bad and concluded that I did not want my Elise to be a track only car.

To those that want to drive both setups... I don't think it's gonna happen unless you know someone that bought one, because the dealers won't get an LSS car as their demo out of fear of chasing away business.

Ask yourself what you’re going to do with the car (be honest). If you conclude you will only track the car then get LSS. If you will track it sometimes and also use it on the street don't get it or you'll likely regret you decision.
 
Ironically I'm feeling that being #25 and not in the first round of orders could be a good thing. I have it on good authority that MAG in Columbus is

a) getting one (or two) of the show cars in Feb/March for people to look at and try on and

b) they're ordering two dealer cars when the final production versions come out. One will be bare bones and the other will have everything including touring and the LSS package so you can compare the ride quality first hand.

Okay so I'm actually just trying to make myself feel better about not being in the first round. At least I might have a better idea about what I'm ordering. :)

Jim
 
Derek said:
If it was a Cadillac rep telling me a car rode rough I would take it with a grain of salt. When a Lotus rep tells me a car rides rough I take their word for it.


I think that's right on the money. Car companies like BMW offer a sport package that may or may not consist of any suspension changes at all (the xi cars have none). You get fancy wheels, a 3 spoke steering wheel & better seats with deeper bolsters. This type of marketing from car companies has us all thinking "of course I want the sport package -- it's sportier".

With Lotus though, I'd bet that sport means true motorsport involvement. If you're not going to be on the track at least 1/2 the time, I'd be wary of the "sport suspension".

After all, why would Lotus reps warn against it for street driving? They make more money on the LSS -- common sense would tell you that the marketing guys would encourage people to get it.

We'll find out how rough it is in a few months. I too am glad I am further down the list (and not just trying to make myself feel better). I don't even want my car until NEXT MARCH ('05). #1 - I need to sell some stuff and #2 - Why shell out money to have it sit all next winter?
 
What Nick Adams told me

When I asked Nick Adams about this at the LA auto show, his response was that the sports package is intended for a driver who has already master the driving dynamics of a mid-engine high performance car, like someone with significant track experience in a 911. The standard suspension has a touch of understeer dialed in to keep people like me from killing themselves, whereas the sports tuning is absolutely neutral, which means that it has the potential to oversteer if you don't know what you're doing (which, of course, I would not).

His recommendation was to buy the touring package and drive the Elise through two sets of tires, along with some track days and autocrossing, and then, when the car is ready for its third set of tires, have the sports package installed instead.
 
Re: What Nick Adams told me

David said:
When I asked Nick Adams about this at the LA auto show, his response was that the sports package is intended for a driver who has already master the driving dynamics of a mid-engine high performance car, like someone with significant track experience in a 911. The standard suspension has a touch of understeer dialed in to keep people like me from killing themselves, whereas the sports tuning is absolutely neutral, which means that it has the potential to oversteer if you don't know what you're doing (which, of course, I would not).
No mention of ride quality? Hmmmm.
 
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