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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I debated posting this, but finally said "Why not?"

This is an instructor run group at a HPDE. There is passing everywhere with a point. The Camaro has been given a point (it's a race car driven by a really good driver) and I've moved off line to let him pass me on the outside. He's right next to me. You might have to watch the video twice to catch the Camaro as you attention will probably be focused on the Ferrari.

The Porche spun.

Who has made the biggest mistake here? What was that mistake? (And if you were at the event yesterday and heard us discussing this, hold off on posting until others get a chance.)

I did use the S word, so don't play this at work if folks would get offended by the S word.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OndIfPADlBs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OndIfPADlBs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 

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Whoa! Scary. Why had the Ferrari stopped? If it was able to move under its own power and had not stalled, it should have been rolling, preferably to the left as quickly as possible.
 

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Ok, I've watched it a few more times and the Ferrari seemed to be going at the Elise's pace through the corner, until it got to the Porsche. Seems to be a stupid move on his/her part.
 

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My first thought was, "WTF is the F-car doing there?!" Maybe the P-car spun in front of him and he stopped to avoid? :shrug: Dunno. Of course, that doesn't explain why he just sat there.
 

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If I saw things correctly the Ferrari STOPPED while fully under control. If so, that was a huge error and he is lucky he did not get collected. Never stop on track unless your car is not driveable and even then get off the line and preferably off the track. The Ferrari driver KNEW part of the track was blocked and he proceeded to block a bunch more. I can assure you that had I been driving your car I could not have stopped, as I carry typically 80-90 mph at the apex in 1-2 at TWS.

An undercurrent is that everyone seemed really anxious to stay on track, too. I assume the Ferrari driver was uncertain which way the Porsche was going, so there may be fault (on top of spinning) to go with the Porsche driver. There are several reasons for "in a spin, 2 feet in," and one of them is that your trajectory is predictable. If the P driver allowed his car to roll back across the track at the end of the spin, then shame on him. In any event, the Ferrari driver should have just driven off track right if he was unsure of the P-car trajectory. The Camaro should have done the same to leave room for you to get track right, but that is a very heads-up move that is not a mistake not to have done. The off area is smooth and there are no obstacles - trust me, I know.

I have actually included drills in my school where in a lead-follow eveyone goes off to see that it is not so bad. Problem is that it is hard on the grass and you can scratch things sometimes, so it did not go over well.

You did all you could do and it is very fortunate you are so conservative that you reduced speed a lot to permit the pass.

A very sorry scene for so-called instructors, IMO.
 

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When you guys are approaching the spun P-car, the Ferrari looks to be at a standstill - that is the question: did the Ferrari stop or stall or what? He is clearly the hazard in the middle of the track.
Was the yellow caution flag waved?
 

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Assuming the Porsche spun and came to a stop by itself, why did the Ferrari stop? Or did the Ferrari stop because the Porsche was still moving when it approached?

Either way the Ferrari should of gone before you got there.
 

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Ferrari.

I've had plenty of cars (race and HPDE) toss it in front of me:

<object width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2876392&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2876392&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><br /><a href="http://vimeo.com/2876392">Team Venom Racing Intro Sequence v2</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/robainscough">Rob Ainscough</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.

The rule of thumb is to aim at their initial point of control lose, but sometimes ya just have to make the excutive decision and make it quickly. I'm guessing you had someone on your right side and hence couldn't move right to go around both cars in a controlled manner?

Coming to a complete stop ON track is never a good thing. Also, why was the flagger waving a white flag not a yellow?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I'm guessing you had someone on your right side and hence couldn't move right to go around both cars in a controlled manner?
Yes. The Camaro.

Also, why was the flagger waving a white flag not a yellow?
The flagger was wearing white and waving a yellow flag. If you go to Youtube and do the 'watch in high quality' thing you can see everything much better.

The P car (her) did not got off track at all (you can see the skid marks in the high quality video on Youtube).

The Ferrari (him) did not stall.

I guess this wasn't much of a challenge to identify the mistake. I just showed my wife the video (her eyes got a bit wide as she watched it in High Def on a 30" monitor) and she said "That Ferrari driver is an idiot. Why did he stop?" She has NO track experience of any kind whatsoever, even as a passenger.

This was the story from the Ferrari driver: "I wasn't sure if the P car was completely stopped, so I slowed down. I was then looking over my shoulder at the cars passing me on the right, so I didn't see you. When you beeped, I saw you and moved on."
 

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The Ferrari driver should be punted from the advanced run group. The Camaro was already given the pass prior to the flag station coming into view (but perhaps that's just do to the field of view of the camera?).

Either way, the Ferrari driver made the biggest mistake and you got caught in a bad spot.

Best case, the Camaro driver could have ditched right in order to allow you room to avoid a potential collision.

I hope everyone on the video dropped by the Ferrari driver's spot after the session and had a chat with him.
 

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At first glance, it literally looks like the Ferrari driver slowed down like a rubbernecker. It almost looked like her was trying to have a conversation with the Porsche driver. Mind-boggling.
 

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Ahh, see the flagger better now in HQ. Either way, seems like you made the correct executive decision - was there anyone directly behind you in a less capable braking car?

It does look like you were a little late on responding to the Yellow flag.
 

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There was no way Rich could have safely moved right. Look at how much space the Ferrari is occupying. He'd need to make a very sharp maneuver to the right 3rd of the road that could have caused him to lose control.
:shrug:
It would have been easy enough to open his line and go right - real issue is that there was a Camaro where he would have needed to go which is why he had to stay left. It's hard to say if the flag station was visible when the Camaro got the point by, but it doesn't change that there's no excuse for the Ferrari to stop at that spot on track.

RichS - hope you gave him the appropriate Ferrari driver salute after the session!
rotfl
 

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:shrug:
It would have been easy enough to open his line and go right - real issue is that there was a Camaro where he would have needed to go which is why he had to stay left.

Not with how late he seemed to react. If he had seen it earlier, then sure he could have done it, but by the time he was screaming SH&T! and braking, it was way too late with his rate of acceleration.

Maybe Rich will correct me.
 
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