The Lotus Cars Community banner
1 - 20 of 104 Posts

·
Loves to talk
Joined
·
1,447 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As the Evora bows to history it has evolved from "can't be sold from new at any price" to "do you have one in a pretty color cause I'll buy it now." Evoras are on the cusp of a new phase. There's that familiar predictable curve that started with the Elise and Exige that we've watched in real time. The traditional first stage in development of any modern but old style Lotus (extruded ones) is that Lotus can't build them at a profit and the dealers have to sell them at a discount. The new owners either shake them out and keep them for decades or sell them immediately to the actual rightful new owner, who wanted one and was waiting for just this situation. Inevitably when they are finally discontinued, they are mourned by millions but actually, very few bought in at the time.

As higher end car sales go, dealerships don't greatly profit by them and neither apparently has Lotus. Yet in turn as they become increasingly unavailable, they become correspondingly more desirable. It's like running into an ex at the airport three years later. On second thought, you realize how hot she actually was. What were you thinking? Anyway you look at it, if you should want her again it will cost extra because you're late, plus it's complicated.

The potential fly in the ointment for the Evora is the Emira. We won't know its impact on the Evora for a few more days, maybe longer but we'll soon see. Regardless, the Evora will stand apart from contemporaries as a fine example of an exotic driver's car of the vanishing era that actually makes sense to drive on the road as you'd like. More of them may acquire some miles, like Porsches I guess, because they are good at it. Owners know they don't wear you or themselves out, they run at an easy lope at any pace you dial up, they look awesome they are a delight to drive, they're not really that expensive to own and people love them. So you get strokes and not yokes. SOs are usually ok with them too. You need a good color (also for me, three pedals) and that's it, you're good. Simply, the longer I've owned it, the more my Evora has met or exceeded my expectations.

The obvious conclusion is that I now own an appreciating classic. Right?

But then, there's the Emira. What will the Emira bring? Does it improve on the Evora? Is it mostly an Evora except more zoomy? Is it cheaper than an Evora, more expensive, not as cool, better?

Your speculation is treasured.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,150 Posts
I love Evoras but I predict a lot of folks will sell their Evoras after the release of the Emira. Since it will be in the same $ ballpark and possibly look/perform better... I can see Evora used market take a hit. I think the Elige market will remain stable because nothing can replace them, also different price bracket.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,000 Posts
Guess the future becomes the present on July 6th. Same sentimentality occurred when the Evora was introduced. Sacrilege, over 3000lbs. Won"t touch an Elige......guess what? IT WILL. New tech will advance the performance. Maybe it will even have a thermostat on the climate system that works hehe e
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
I love Evoras but I predict a lot of folks will sell their Evoras after the release of the Emira. Since it will be in the same $ ballpark and possibly look/perform better... I can see Evora used market take a hit. I think the Elige market will remain stable because nothing can replace them, also different price bracket.
I was wondering the same thing? I think I'll wait and see...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
477 Posts
One thing that is almost certain, the Emira will not be able to be serviced by the shade tree mechanic like the Evora/Elige. It will be much more complicated.
I am very interested in what the Emira will bring.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
One thing that is almost certain, the Emira will not be able to be serviced by the shade tree mechanic like the Evora/Elige. It will be much more complicated.
I am very interested in what the Emira will bring.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Not so sure how many shade tree mechanics will even attempt a rear clamshell removal :)

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
2017 Evora 400
Joined
·
371 Posts
I think it depends on what the manual transmission option for the Emira is going to be. If its the same engine and gear box that's in our cars then I really don't see much point in an upgrade. If the 4 cylinder Emira that will have to be built for markets that aggressively tax cars with >4 cylinders really has the 4 cylinder mercedes M139 AMG motor then that will have the 8 speed DCT from the AMG45. So if you are looking to ditch the manual transmission then that could be an attractive proposition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Well I am a current Exige owner that has been getting more excited about an Evora ( and yes I am looking for a nice color :) and has to be a carbon pack) but I am excited to see what the Emira holds. I am not in any particular rush, so now that we are so close to the launch I am waiting to be able to compare the Evora and Emira.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
279 Posts
It's like running into an ex at the airport three years later. On second thought, you realize how hot she actually was. What were you thinking? Anyway you look at it, if you did want it again it' would cost extra because you're late, plus it's complicated.
At the airport . . three years later . . seems oddly specific. How was she?

I hope the Emira looks as good as the Evija and there is a nice performance bump. Lotus needs to knock it out of the park, lets face it, the Evora was kind of a flop from a business stand point
 

·
Registered
2017 Evora 400
Joined
·
371 Posts
I hope the 2GR motor Emira is a significant improvement over the 4xx/GT series Evora. I see this as being the "last analog sports car"- 6 spd, hydraulic steering, passive suspension and so on. If you don't have a 4xx/GT Evora and want something you can keep and drive when everything else is electric then this would be attractive. I am more interested in the 4 cylinder version. If this is based on the A45 AMG then you could imagine spinning the entire drivetrain 180 degrees to make an AWD Emira with the 8 speed dual clutch transmission. The AMG A45 is surprisingly light- lighter than an Evora 4xx/GT- so the weight penalty of AWD might be worth paying for the handling/traction benefits. Not long to wait now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
One thing that is almost certain, the Emira will not be able to be serviced by the shade tree mechanic like the Evora/Elige. It will be much more complicated.
I am very interested in what the Emira will bring.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Good point - that's what brought me to thinking Lotus in the first place....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,356 Posts
I have been thinking about the phrase "appreciating classic." Why do classic Porsches and Ferraris not only hold their value but actually appreciate? It can't be rarity - think how few Lotus are made; it isn't engineering in the pure sense. As others here have noted, nearly all reviewers rave, and then pick something else. Racing history? Nope. Lotus is all over that. A charismatic founder, like Enzo or Ferry? Check.

Cheapness? Or the sense that almost everything is a compromise or cobbled together? Maybe. Is a Lotus a car that has $150k of engineering and, in a sense -$50k of everything else, while a Porsche (and yes I have owned both) is $75k of engineering and $75k of everything else? Ferrari is in a different league in some ways, because it's gobs of engineering and everything else, not the least of which is cachet. They couldn't give original Dinos away when they were new, and now you can't touch them. An Elise will always be a good car, but never in that price range, even when there is one left, sadly.

On this board, we are all highly anticipating the Emira. Even if we don't buy one, it's a step, a progression, a sense that Lotus marches on. Will the rest of the world take note?
 

·
Registered
2020 Evora GT, Metallic Racing Green
Joined
·
231 Posts
On the one hand, look at the Lotus Espirit which has awesome styling, was iconic and featured in movies, and yet you can still find plenty for reasonable money. OTOH, the Elise is only seeming to gain in value recently, even though it's newer.

So I think it's hard to predict how Evora and Emira will do. One thing they will both have is relative scarcity. I don't think they will cannibalize too much the others value considering how similar they are and how relatively uncommon they are. Also MT examples will almost certainly be worth more than AT's when you look at pretty much every older sports car out there. Likely there will be some who prefer Evora styling, or simply prefer the simpler interior, or +2. Others will prefer Emira styling or the likely performance increases.

I doubt they will ever be Ferrari or Porsches because Lotus doesn't and will never have that same brand cachet. But I bet they will hold value and go up in value somewhat for well maintained examples simply because in 10 or 20 years the number of running MT, ICE, sports cars will be very small.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,064 Posts
One thing that is almost certain, the Emira will not be able to be serviced by the shade tree mechanic like the Evora/Elige. It will be much more complicated.
I have every intention on wrenching on my Emira, just like I do my Evora. No matter how fancy/advanced cars become, they're still just machines. And anything that's held together with screws and bolts can come apart if you undo them. Electronics might be a bigger issue, but hopefully Lotus has learned from their history, and put that knowledge into their newer offerings.

Not so sure how many shade tree mechanics will even attempt a rear clamshell removal :)
Taking the front and rear clams off aren't that big of a task for anyone that's turned a wrench before. It's the putting them back on that's a PITA due to alignment and gaps.
 

·
Registered
2005 Lotus Elise
Joined
·
811 Posts
Alot of time there is no rhyme or reason for this, as in what appreciates vice depreciates.
 

·
Loves to talk
Joined
·
1,447 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
At the airport . . three years later . . seems oddly specific. How was she?
She was great to....um.....work with but I forgot how needy she could be. Things are always better in the rear view mirror except in an Evora which has no rear view.

(Nobody in particular, actually although I have some fond memories. But usually, just a bunch of BS that I make up as I go, throw against the wall and hope some sticks. It's all in my screen name because......I can go on!)
 

·
Loves to talk
Joined
·
1,447 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
On the one hand, look at the Lotus Espirit which has awesome styling, was iconic and featured in movies, and yet you can still find plenty for reasonable money. OTOH, the Elise is only seeming to gain in value recently, even though it's newer.

So I think it's hard to predict how Evora and Emira will do.
Right off, it is hard to predict, but if the 4XX cars were in fact the last of the line, it would be much easier. They'd do what the Elise and Exige do, appreciate gradually but steadily.

The thing that makes the Espirit different, well there are a lot of things actually in my mind. I think the Esprits had some flaws the 'Eagle' was intended to avoid. Certainly the Toyota package makes the big "which motor" question moot and is confidence inspiring. Also, the Evora never intended or pretended to compete with Ferrari or Lamborghini (or whoever) toe to toe which was not achieved but clearly hoped for in the Esprit. The Evora has done a better if less dramatic job of meeting its mission of competing at the top of the middle, or bottom of the top if you prefer. It's a much more aspirational vehicle since it competes against cars one click down from the cars the Esprit had to run against. And then, the Espirt's have a rep, deserved or undeserved, for being hard to own whereas the Evoras have a rep for being the easier Lotus to own.

For us Lotus fans though it's an exciting moment. I really hope they do something about spare parts and improved service turn around. Say it how you like, not enough dealers, not a willingness to keep parts here, or just the economics of being a small supplier. It's the problem they need to crack. The Esprit was and remains hard to own. The Evora and Eliges, though discontinued, should not be, and absolutely the same must be true for Emira. Evija is allowed to be a difficult pill to swallow, a different thing.

If Lotus wants to truly be a prestige choice, they must step up the day to day service. Especially for cars that are intended to compete with Porsche, Toyota, Alfa, Chevrolet etc. Nobody's perfect but there are only so many imperfections most people will tolerate. The ownership experience has to match the hardware. Maintaining (never mind restoring) an Esprit is not and won't ever be as easy as doing the same with an Evora and even that requires some flexibility and creativity for a lot of people who don't have pro services handy.

I see the Evora as Lotus' most aspirational car for people in the market now. You could probably say the same about the Elise or Exige except the Evora has been positioned to be the next rising star, depending of course on what the Emira turns out to be and how enthusiasts receive it. But I think all the extruded cars will end up being collectible at some level, probably including the Emira. They're very good at what they do and there will never be too many of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,150 Posts
Look at how fast McLaren Grew with the 12c. I think Lotus has a good chance to compete with the big boys. growing up I mostly Paid attention to the aesthetics of what Ferrari and Lamborghini offered. You know, collecting hotwheels and model cars. I think Lotus had been behind before the Esprit. Now the Elige cars are catching up and getting recognized with all these youtube videos. Guys and gals back in 2005 that couldn't afford to buy now have a chance to buy their dream car now (another factor of rising value), I am one of those... Yes performance is important, but these new Lotus cars need to kill in the looks department.
 

·
Premium Member
2021 Lotus Evora GT
Joined
·
58 Posts
What a great post @lotusquacious

I bought a 2021 Evora GT knowing that the Emira was soon to be released. I also own new Porsches, vintage Porsches and a vintage Ferrari. I can tell you with no doubt that the Evora GT performs better than any of them imo. I also like the fact that the Lotus is rather rare. I drove into town this morning and passed 4 guys chatting in a parking lot. All turned to watch the Evora pass and I heard one say "what is that?"

Will I buy an Emira? More than likely yes. Will I trade my Evora? Present thinking is probably not (I will somehow trick my wife into thinking it's OK to rent more garage space). If the styling of the Emira is as cool if not better than the Evora, or some other car in it's class with a manual transmission, that will be crucial to my purchase decision. I don't think that I would buy the first year Emira, however, because Lotus has proven, at least from what I have seen, to not get it right the first or even second time.

Why hasn't Lotus gained the market share many of us believe it deserves? In my opinion, as a marketing consultant of 25 years with emphasis on the auto industry, there is one solid, crystal clear reason: their marketing in relation to other automotive marques, barely moves the needle. It's one of the weakest, most naive, limp-dick marketing approaches I have ever seen. They simply do not get the message out to enough auto enthusiasts. That's a management failure. We all understand their amazing heritage and that they are capable of making absolutely exemplary driver's cars, but it's the weakest links in a chain that leads to substandard performance.

Hopefully the changes in Hethel can make for positive change and support loyal customers in the process.
 
1 - 20 of 104 Posts
Top