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Discussion Starter #1
My '14 S with 23k miles is on its third clutch MC, with the previous owner having replaced the first two under warranty. About two weeks ago after some hot weather driving, I wound up getting caught by the "clutch pedal isn't returning from the floor" issue. After the car cooled and I poked at it for a bit, it went back to almost normal. I ordered an aftermarket one from BOE to fix it once and for all.

Fast forward to today, and I get a call from the dealer telling me they flushed and bled it, that the MC is never an issue, and they've only replaced a single one since the car was released back in 2010. They refuse to make a warranty claim with Fidelity on this issue.

In your opinions does this sound like a failing MC and a dealer that's full of it, or is needing the clutch hydraulics bled and flushed often a common issue?
 

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Dealers lie/cheat/steal, which is why they're known as "stealers". That may or may not be the case here, but just because they don't have any direct experience with the OEM m/cs failing doesn't mean everyone else doesn't.

Since it sounds like you have an extended warranty with Fidelity, I would contact them and explain the situation. You may have to have a different shop perform the work if the stealer is unwilling.

Flushing the m/c/brake lines will usually bring it back to life temporarily, but it'll just happen again. The OE units just aren't made well, and don't seem to tolerate heat as much as they should. The aftermarket units are much better made, and fully rebuildable from the interior side, so the clam should never have to come off again* for a failing m/c seal.





* there are some reports that claim the m/c can be changed without removing the clam, but no one has produced any photo evidence of this, so YMMV
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, I've had several other issues with that dealership and just called Fidelity, and they said it's fine if I bring it elsewhere... now if I can just find a decent shop in NE Florida I'll be set. I'm planning on heading up to Tail of the Dragon in a few weeks, and I'm hoping I have it all sorted by then.

As for the no-clam removal MC replacement, I've also heard that rumor. I may not have pictures of the work, but I do have the previous owner's service records and in them a shop in Scottsdale claims they did it through the wheel wells. Invoice image here: https://i.imgur.com/KPsDBpf.jpg
 

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I agree. bleeding the MC will only be a temp fix. My car had this issue while I was under warranty. they bled it multiple times. when I was out I ended up paying for it to be replaced...
 

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During the first year the Evoras were on the market in the US, I had my Exige in the local dealership for some minor warranty work. Was talking to the tech working on the car, noticing that there were a couple Evoras up on the lift, I asked him if they're doing a lot of work on them already. He said that several they'd sold had come back with MC problems.
 

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Nope it is failing and that is BS from the dealer. Mine failed and was replaced under warranty. I also have Fidelity and it was replaced without question. This is a known and common failure with Evoras. Lotus even had a "quick fix" TSB by wrapping the line near the cats. Even with the TSB performed, mine still failed. On an OEM one still but if it does fail again I'll be going with one of the aftermarket ones.
 

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Super Important !!

If you already have the aftermarket replacement MC:

I got my MC from GRP/Wilwood. It came with a plastic adapter plate to connect the MC to the pedal box. The load transfer from the pedal to the MC caused a flexion load, and the plastic failed after a relatively short time. If your pedal doesn’t return upward at this juncture, I’d say the MC is possibly fully separated from the pedal box.

I think Tilton is the supplier for BOE, but check out that possibility of design deficiency. I ended up getting a new piece from GRP, made from aluminum.
 

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Clutch goes to floor from excessive heat it is as simple as sticking foot under pedal to allow refill. I've done it countless times after track sessions on 90 degree days....even with high temp fluids.
 

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I don't agree with most of the sentiment above, if you haven't flushed the clutch fluid and applied a quality heat wrap you're going to have issues. It's brake fluid in a hot environment, it should be flushed annually with the brakes. My MY11 metal MC pedal was a bit droopy when I got the car, RBF600 or RBF660 fluid and DEI Fire Wrap took care of the problem.

At a minimum, give the dealer repair a chance, if you feel the pedal is still an issue go back and push for MC replacement.
 

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Let's think for a minute. The heat is in the rear causing the trouble, esp with folks that have not performed proper maintenance by bleeding annually. The MC is up front and supposedly is the cause....there is no heat to be concerned about up front. I question how many MC's actually did fail in the first place!! Its all about the line near the exhaust manifold and the clutch solenoid getting roasted.
 

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Let's think for a minute. The heat is in the rear causing the trouble, esp with folks that have not performed proper maintenance by bleeding annually. The MC is up front and supposedly is the cause....there is no heat to be concerned about up front. I question how many MC's actually did fail in the first place!! Its all about the line near the exhaust manifold and the clutch solenoid getting roasted.
If the slave cylinder line's position is the main failure cause for master cylinders, then they would have failed equally on US vs ROW cars, as the slave cylinder is still on the LHS of the car for both. But the amount of failures reported on TLF, where the majority of cars are RHD, is significantly less than in the US. The only difference is the clutch master is located on the RHS of the front, versus the LHS on our cars.

One theory is that there is a significant amount of heat on the LHS in the front, as this is where the heater matrix lines are (they cross right under/near the m/c), in addition to the coolant lines on their way to the radiator. The RHS is where the coolant return lines are, after the heat has been exchanged, and thus radiate less heat.

Of course it's all just theory, and there's really no way to definitively know how and why the OEM units fail, as I don't believe anyone has ever dissected an OE unit after failure. Maybe it's just a fixed number of bad units from the part mfg, both metal and plastic ones, and those are just the "unlucky" few. I just don't see the harm in recommending people address it with known-good parts, instead of possibly-good parts. Replacing fluid will only help for so long if it's actually the seals that are wearing out over time.
 

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I put redline fluids in my 2014 S after the first time the MC failed and was replaced under warranty. It failed again, replaced again. Then I sold it. Then it failed the new owner. The car wasn’t tracked or even driven extensively. I sold it with about 12,000 miles. Not sure what to say to the people theorizing there isn’t a fatal flaw in the MC and its configuration in LHD cars.
 

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Interesting point re the LHD cars. I’ve been expecting this failure any day now, but you’re right in that it doesn’t seem to be as common over here (RHD).
 

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Clutch goes to floor from excessive heat it is as simple as sticking foot under pedal to allow refill. I've done it countless times after track sessions on 90 degree days....even with high temp fluids.
I've said this in many post. This is not the only symptom of a failed MC. Mine was exactly the opposite with a pedal that became firm as the car warmed up accompanied by slippage. So it's not always that fallen pedal. Just seems like it's a poor design and definitely heat related.

I remember that discussion on the area where it was housed with pictures etc....does seem plausible.

I have my car serviced yearly, don't track it, not "really" a daily driver ((around 7-8k miles a year) and it still failed.
 

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It was a failed seal in mine and wouldn't relieve pressure.
 

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I think my MC is about to go, as I have had the "pedal won't come off the floor" thing twice now in about 2 months, and I just hit 26K miles, which is apparently their lifespan. So I'm taking my 2011 in to have the MC replaced next week, and the service guy told me that it was 4 hours to replace the MC with a factory MC, but 6 hours to replace it with the aftermarket one. He also said that they have had problems with aftermarket MCs in the past, so they might have to just spend a bunch of time on the aftermarket one, only to remove it and then install the factory one instead, and charge me for all that time and the part... Anyone have something like this happen to them?

I ordered the Tilton one from BOE, as (1) it is in stock, and (2) seems to be a good product from the reviews I've found. It just doesn't make any sense to me that it would take two hours longer to install one master cylinder instead of another. Aren't they basically the exact same part? I fail to see how it would take an extra two hours to fit one instead of the other, except for the "we aren't making a profit from you buying parts from us" thing...
 

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I think my MC is about to go, as I have had the "pedal won't come off the floor" thing twice now in about 2 months, and I just hit 26K miles, which is apparently their lifespan. So I'm taking my 2011 in to have the MC replaced next week, and the service guy told me that it was 4 hours to replace the MC with a factory MC, but 6 hours to replace it with the aftermarket one. He also said that they have had problems with aftermarket MCs in the past, so they might have to just spend a bunch of time on the aftermarket one, only to remove it and then install the factory one instead, and charge me for all that time and the part... Anyone have something like this happen to them?

I ordered the Tilton one from BOE, as (1) it is in stock, and (2) seems to be a good product from the reviews I've found. It just doesn't make any sense to me that it would take two hours longer to install one master cylinder instead of another. Aren't they basically the exact same part? I fail to see how it would take an extra two hours to fit one instead of the other, except for the "we aren't making a profit from you buying parts from us" thing...
If the person doing the swap doesn't measure the OE cylinder push rod length and transfer that over to the aftermarket one, then a lot of time would probably need to be spent tweaking it for proper engagement and sensor actuation. Otherwise you get weird cruise control behavior or other oddities.

But an additional 2 hours? Unless you're adamant about them doing the work, I'd probably find a different shop...
 

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I think my MC is about to go, as I have had the "pedal won't come off the floor" thing twice now in about 2 months, and I just hit 26K miles, which is apparently their lifespan. So I'm taking my 2011 in to have the MC replaced next week, and the service guy told me that it was 4 hours to replace the MC with a factory MC, but 6 hours to replace it with the aftermarket one. He also said that they have had problems with aftermarket MCs in the past, so they might have to just spend a bunch of time on the aftermarket one, only to remove it and then install the factory one instead, and charge me for all that time and the part... Anyone have something like this happen to them?

I ordered the Tilton one from BOE, as (1) it is in stock, and (2) seems to be a good product from the reviews I've found. It just doesn't make any sense to me that it would take two hours longer to install one master cylinder instead of another. Aren't they basically the exact same part? I fail to see how it would take an extra two hours to fit one instead of the other, except for the "we aren't making a profit from you buying parts from us" thing...
I did the swap myself with the Tiltron cylinder. Makes no sense why it would take extra time to install it if they do it with the clam off. If it's with the clam on, I can only speculate that it may take some extra time trying to fit the new unit in from the wheel well.
 

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If the person doing the swap doesn't measure the OE cylinder push rod length and transfer that over to the aftermarket one, then a lot of time would probably need to be spent tweaking it for proper engagement and sensor actuation. Otherwise you get weird cruise control behavior or other oddities.

But an additional 2 hours? Unless you're adamant about them doing the work, I'd probably find a different shop...
Well thats the problem... There is only one authorized lotus service in the state here, and its on the other side of the state from me. I don't have a place where I could remove the clam and work on the car, so have to go to a shop. I called every local mechanic shop, and nobody is willing to work on it, so I'm stuck with them. I guess I'll just suck it up. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy thinking it was a little strange charging extra time for a MC swap. Oh well. Thanks for the feedback though!
 
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