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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For your information:

The punched plate used for the pusher plate is the same for the OEM clutch than for ACT Heady Duty version.

ACT are saying that the HD is giving 40% more load to the disc, maybe, I did not verify.

In regards of the pusher plate punched plate, the one with 6 bolts to hold on the flywheel, I broke it 2 times (OEM).

The first time, I broke it arond 3 bolts spaced at 120 degrees, where the plate is curved and rise up. The material is very stretched at that zone, and the material left from the manufacturing process is very small. The engine was stock.

The second time it broke somewhere else, close to the other 3 bolts, in fact, one place was good, one was crack, and the other one was just broken, and I lost one piece of the plate, and the pucher plate was touching the transmission bell housing creating a nice music on the red light, nice car with a noise of junk... The engine was equipped with a Katana kit.

I purchased an ACT clutch wishing that the pucher plate could be different, but not, bad.

My experience is that this case is not special, and ACT are not worst than other, I saw a lot of heavy duty clutch using the same pusher plate than OEM. Typically, the pusher plate is never a problem, but Totoya have sometime bad stuff, worst than other company.

For the future, I still looking for a pusher plate using a different sheet metal form and design than OEM, with a similar clamping load. I don't want to increase too much the clamping load to don't stress the crankshaft trust bearing. If you have good experience, and you are certain that the pucher plate is different than OEM, let me know.

For your information again, I am not doing start and go with the car, no drag race, but a lot of lapping day.
 

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whattttt ?????

ACT is NOT the same parts as OEM

ACT is NOT JUNK

ACT is the best option for 95% of you


We sell and install ACT's daily at the shop and never once an issue, they are leagues and bounds beyond most other clutches on the market.

the only way to handle more tq capacity w/o using a puck style disc which is much much worse is to use a heavier clamping force. The ACT heavy duty is not a hard clutch to push and not abusive on anything, the extreme is stiffer and will still not give you any wear on bearings or anything else you might be imagining.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
OK it is not junk, and the OEM is not junk. And it is probably good for 95% of us.

But you must say that the pusher plate is using exactly the same plate part in the HD version than the OEM. This is a fact, which you can not contest if you look both pusher plate side by side.

The disc is something else, and everyone are doing disc.

Oh, by the way, I was using the 6 pucks disc from ACT, and one pad was broken when I dismounted it, but I don't really care, all manufacturer are using the same puck, which is available on the clutch rework service at 1 miles from home, they are doing clutch rework for truck, car, and every other application...

Quite funny... do you agree?

Here is a place to say the reality, and this reality should help supplier to produce better product. I don't have interest to modify the fact, I am not a sale person, and I just buy an ACT clutch to reduce my clutch fealure, and it will not help. I just pay a nice painted clutch yellow for an OEM equivalent.

I am pretty sure that the OEM clutch is good also for 95% of us.

Of course, if you don't trust me, I will be please to take picture Friday, the car is not assemble yet, and I have both clutch side by side, one broken OEM, and one yellow ACT fully new. Just ask, and I will. But one advantage of the ACT is it is coming balanced.
 

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Just to chime in here, as I have dealt with ACT in a multitude of capacities over the years.

1) It is no secret that ACT starts with OEM Pressure Plates and modifies them (specifically the diaphragms) for higher clamp loads and higher toque capacity. This a VERY common practice among aftermarket clutch suppliers, simply because they don't all have foundries and the ability to produce new 'steel' then the OEM works pretty good with modifications.

2) The disc IMO, is what really sets each aftermarket clutch kit apart. I would argue the fact that the 6 puck provided by ACT along with "all manufacturer are using the same puck". ACT alone offers two different 6 Puck discs, and when you start to look at other manufactures that number grows to 20+-. Just curious, which ACT disc did you have? (Sprung or Unsprung)

3) As for your issue - the steel of the pressure plate cracking - all I can say is I've *rarely* seen this happen and having it happen twice... well... go buy a lotto ticket. I can't imagine this happening without some other forces at work (read: installation) and would be interested in seeing the pictures.


As far as finding true one-off designs (read: not using stock components) for Pressure Plate/Disc/Flywheel and Bearings, you'll have to look to the following companies: Carbonetic (formally ATS/Across), Exedy (Hyper Series), HKS, OS Geiken or Tilton (there could be more, this is just off the top of my head).

However, my quick research didn't yield any applications for the 2ZZ. Perhaps more in depth research / inquiry will yield some better results.


Good Luck.

-M
 

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Thank you for clearing that up about the pressure plates and disc's Matt. Like he said and i will just reiterate, the pressure plates might LOOK like the stock ones but thats because they start as a stock piece directly from the same factory that Exedy uses for their OEM and aftermarket clutches as well. They are 100% NOT OEM pressure plates just painted yellow, they would not be capable of handling the increased power w/o having increased pressure and clamping force.

i would venture to guess he used a 6 puck UNsprung. if you are not making 350+whp than the standard full faced disc and extreme pressure plate will serve everyone well. if you NEED to go 6 puck, get a sprung one.


if you need something lighter/stronger we carry carbonetic twin and single carbon clutches for the 2zz.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the information regarding different manufacturer, I will spend time to look that later.

Regarding which version of the 6 pucks I was using, I was uning the sprung type (sorry, not as per your guess...), to minimise any shock load to the rest of the mechanical, and anyway, my engine is slightly modified with a Katana, and the torque still quite low.

I saw many clutch fealure in my life, and it is the first time I saw that trouble on the outer plate. The reason is like I said, the sheet metal is just too much punched, creating big stress on the lower bend (by the way, I am an engineer specialised on machine design). And I know that it is typical for many clutch supplier. The fault is not ACT, but the manufacturer of the pusher plate, but the clutch supplier are not saying from which parts they are starting.

Regarding the installation, come on, the first clutch was the original one never dismounted, and the I installed the second one, and a clutch installation is quite straight forward, don't need to be a scientific doctor to install that.

For the picture, I will take picture of the breaking zone before to put it on the garbage, Friday.

And like I said, my application is a lot of lapping day, and typically, not easy to catch up. And it is true that my car is suffering is lot.

Typically, I have trouble before many, but at the end, I am never alone...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Please find the picture for who are interested.

2 pictures showing the final break, with one section completely break-off, and another one cracked. This is typical for 3 bolts area.

The other 3 area are more subject to crack, and my pressure plate was welded on that zone to reinforce. This area was crack on my first clutch fealure with the stock engine, and if I remaimber right, I sawe picture of other guy with that trouble.

Of course, ACT as many othe clutch source are using the same pressure plate contour steel than OEM.

After verifying the proposed clutch by Mattgold, they are in completely other price target.
 

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just chiming in here...
I am fairly certain that the Elise/exige clutch is Exidy not ACT. And it is different from the ones available in their catalogues.

Dave
 

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Daiken makes the covers for all of them, OEM, ACT and Exedy all use the same pressure plate on that model clutch however the ACT is modified. the problem im seeing that is broken look's like its a clutch disc that shattered and blew thru the pressure plate. Do you have pictures of the broken ACT pressure plate ?


here's something that would work for you if you are willing to spend the extra money, these are available...this is the one im putting in my car this week hopefully:


 

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Discussion Starter #10
Maybe I was not clear, but I just buy an ACT clutch, and of course, it is not broken yet. It is fully new, and I just installed it (but the car is not running yet, I am waiting for my ordered EFI, and some delay on the shipping, and I just modified the set-up to use a drive by cable throttle body).

My point at the beginning was tp say that the ACT is using the same cover for the pusher plate, and I was dispointed by that, since it is hard to know prior to order what they did. And since I broke 2 times the OEM, it is question of time before I broke the ACT.

Maybe next time I will spend the extra money for something like Carbonetic, but man, not cheap...
 

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O WoW that is beautiful! I almost can't wait to frag my clutch. fwew.

Elise/Europa-- Whenever I keep having the same problem over and over with a part, I tend to find the problem is not with the part but perhaps a catalytic component to the system. Say for instance an alignment problem between the trans. and eng., balance of anything else besides the parts being replaced, Maybe a hairline crack in the bell-housing of the trans which might allow for excessive deflection under load < crack may be invisible with no load >. If there is an alignment problem between Eng. and trans. you could be at risk of main bearing failure.
Since the problem is from stock new I would look very carefully at things that look like they were supposed to be that way but aren't. Clean all mating surfaces thoroughly and cut NO corners. Account for all alignment dowels and be certain that their corresponding holes are clear. Do not assume that they have been properly machined to depth, so as to receive the entire length of the dowel. If the hole were not machined to the proper depth it would cause undesired deflection.

Sometimes it just helps to get to know the parts, have a few beers with them, work up some small talk, find out where they stand on some important common issues. If you are nice to them, you might find them eager to communicate the source of the problems. Just be patient. Remember parts are people too!
The important thing is to keep 'em talkin'.

I don't know what you are gonna find but I'll bet the source of the failures is not the clutch.

Best of luck and please keep us posted.
 

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I have to admit I was getting a different picture in my head, and although I'm still not 100% clear - I think I'm a bit closer. ;)

That being said, yes, the OEM Clutch is Exedy (formally known as Daikin Clutch) and I'll assume that's what Im looking at.

So let me just try to clarify... You are on your 3rd clutch kit.

1st was the OEM - Pressure Plate Broke
2nd was OEM Pressure Plate and ACT 6 Puck (Sprung) - Pressure Plate Broke and 6Puck Disc Broke.
3rd is the new ACT going in.


That being said, I will hold judgment until I understand the situation, but I am erring to DWebb's position of 'catalytic components' being the true culprit. Misaligned bell housing, misaligned Throw Out Bearing, disc not centered on splines/splines damaged, that's scores of possibilities. However, in my opinion there is absolutely NO reason that Pressure Plate would fail (twice!). Although I understand and respect that you are a "engineer specialized on machine design" - I do not believe there is a design flaw or manufacturing defect in your pressure plate.

That being said, I'm sure I can arrange for that failed pressure plate (probably better for the whole kit) to be sent to Exedy for inspection/review.

-M
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I saw few case in my life where the transmission was not perfectly aligned with the engine, and typically, the effect was a broken disc, mainly on the hub section. This was for engine with steel mounting plate, or homemade bellhousing not perfectly aligned (to fit one kind of engine with another kind of transmission).

My ACT disc is good on the hub, it is just one puck with material left. I was using the car a lot on road on traffic, and a ceramic clutch is not very funny, and this can be the cause.

I dismounted the transmission 2 times for the synchro job, and all bearing were like new. I dismounted the engine one time to replace the head stud, and put Crower rod, as well as high performance bearing on the crank, and the bearing were perfect.

I broke the clutch the first time, and I fixed it by welding and reinforcement of the fragile zone, which is very fragile, for me, it is no question about that. Of course, since my plate had suffer from the first break, this could created stress on other zone of the pusher plate. My second fealure was with the same first fixed pressure plate, that give more than 12 tracks days, 30 000 km.

I will see the life of the fully new ACT, I will wait to break it before paying 1600$ for an heavy duty clutch. But still, the pressure plate punching process is very heavy.
 

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Did someone weld that pressure plate back together? Surely no thoughts of using it in a car...
 

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Interested in this thread, my Toda Racing clutch is dragging, has been dragging since it was installed -- when I say "Dragging" I mean, push the clutch in, but doesn't disengage clutch (clutch pedal feel is no different). Clutch slave cylinder was replaced and bled, but problem still persists.

If I ever get this motor out, I'll hopefully be able to gather more insite. I was planning to replace the Toda with an ACT, but maybe not.
 
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