[Randy Chase]

Comments on other forums

Spending some time on other forums. I note interesting reactions to the Elise. I think even more so when the Road & Track article came out. Here is an incredible looking car, with incredible specs. What is not to love?

And yet, we get some people slamming the car. Do you think the motivation is more because of jealousy? Or is there some truth behind the critics?

For example, on the Miata forum-

http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=013707

and its looks out-tackys the Elise by a slim margin.

http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=013671

IMHO, Lotus is going to need a lot of Joe Cools in America. Performance may be there, I just can't get past the styling.

Any way without a doubt the Elise has excellent performance...but the styling is worse then a first gen MR2, which isn't saying a lot.

---I think the best thing for the the little people out here who won't be the first to own is that these cars resale value won't be good, IMO.

So wait a couple of years and buy one for a bargain.

Strange, I don't see the styling as that controversial. It's not an Aztek.

 

[pdemaio]

Re: Comments on other forums

Spending some time on other forums. I note interesting reactions to the Elise. I think even more so when the Road & Track article came out. Here is an incredible looking car, with incredible specs. What is not to love?

First off you are reading responses where people posted in the Miata group stuff like "If anyone wants my Miata, drop me a note in the spring." Which while in the context of the message wasn't particularly rude, it certainly will be taken as a put down by some of the more rabid miata owners.
As for looks, I love it, but lots of people don't, including my best friend, who thinks the S1 was beautiful, and my girlfriend. It's quite polarizing, particularly the one that we saw in person here in seattle which was yellow with black rims and plastic trim.

quote from the miata forum:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and its looks out-tackys the Elise by a slim margin.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This quote was specifically commented around the stickynes of the tires/suspension compared to 3 wheel a motorcycle based vehicle, which had appearently pulled 1.9(!!!???) on the skidpad.
I think the vehicle he was complaining about was pretty darn cool as well. So to him these ultra performance vehicles are ugly, I wonder what he thinks of sport bikes like an R1's styling. Actually I don't care, because I know what I think.

And yet, we get some people slamming the car. Do you think the motivation is more because of jealousy? Or is there some truth behind the critics?

Sure some are jealous, others don't like the styling.
I really like the looks, but there are somethings I think are not good: See my post on the black plastic trim which looks like somthing you might expect on a Kia, but not on an $40,000 car/exotic. I know that the styling was a compromize of form and function particularly in terms of weight. That's what I want. The new farrari enzo is similar.

To the comment on the resale value. Time will tell. I don't plan to sell it for a while, so that's OK, but I'll take my chances on being able to sell a low production car that is the best pure sportscar when compared to anything at even twice it's price. It's a lotus so long term reliabilty isn't going to be a selling point. I think it will be classic. In ten years, maybe gasoline will be out of style and the resale value of anything without a fuel cell will be in the toilet. Buying a new car at MSRP is never a good investment.

Strange, I don't see the styling as that controversial. It's not an Aztek.

No it's not an Aztek which wasn't controvertial at all. It's just plain ugly. The elise is polarizing styling wise and function wise. If that's not what your looking for, buy a corvette or a used M3. I know what my choice is.

 

[smura]

I think it's jealousy. My next comments are going to sound conceded but I can't help the way I feel:

If you re-read the miata thread, it seem to me like people are saying "I wish I could afford a $40K car" or "buy a miata and save $10K. They seem to justify the miata based on cost. These people will always find something wrong with a more expensive car because they wish they could afford it IMO.

I purchased a boxster in 2000 because I thought it was beautiful and although not great, the performance wasn't bad either. If I could have afforded a 911cab I would have got it. There are those who justify their boxster by stating that "why would you buy a 911 with the same nose as the box, but at twice the price". I think these people too are just hiding the fact that they can't afford the better car. If price is the only gripe you have (whether it's manifested by complaining about, looks, or other subjective data) then you clearly have personal issues.

If I could afford a ferrari 360 I'd have one, even if the elise can beat it on the track. Those that say "don't get a ferrari because they cost $5K to do an oil change, etc., etc." are jealous, period. If you can afford a ferrari you can afford the maintenance. If you can't afford the maintenance then you obviously can't afford the car, but don't try and put it down.

Same thing you hear with the import crowd (Subaru/Evo). Why buy a boxster S when you can save $20K and get a Sub/Evo/S2000. Again, I would submit that if you can afford it, the Box S is a much nicer car - performance aside.

Remember, performance is only one part of the equation. If all you cared about was performance, you'd buy a race bike. "Well a bike is not the same thing as a car" - EXACTLY my point. There are other variables to the decision. Maybe you want to stay dry!

OK, I'm done. I wish the elise would get compared to the boxster instead of the miata, mr2 or s2000. I just think it's much classier than these cars and deserves to be compared to better vehicles.

 

[jml1952]

With art, women, cars, etc., beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I think the Elise has very aggressive, sexy styling, and overall the Brits did a very good job with the design. However, it's certainly not the best looking car that I have ever seen. If Ferrari was building a $40,000 two-seater convertible, I bet it would be even prettier.

I don't see anything close to the Elise in styling + performance even for tens of thousands of $$ more.

You are welcome to the Boxster. The inspiration was the Porsche Spyder, a truly gorgeous car, but the modern interpretation doesn't cut it for me.

The Audi TT has an interesting look, but too bulbous for me (even more so for the new Lexus convertible). Corvettes look cool, but too big for my taste (go back to the late 1950s or early 1960s and their are some spectacular designs). My Miata is cute, but I'd say the Elise styling is better and of course no comparison on performance. BMW Z4 and Honda S2000 are ok, but I wouldn't call their designs exactly inspired. Jaguar convertible looks nice, but still a pretty simple design (hard to complete with the old XKs).

I wouldn't worry too much about criticism of the Elise. I believe that when people finally see us driving one, the vast majority will be turned on by the car, with only a small minority that won't like it. I don't care too much; I'm not buying the car to impress others, but for my own enjoyment.

 

[Vantage]

Smura,

I generally agree with you. Automobiles are emotional purchases, not cerebral. Even though the specifications or lap times of two cars are similar, the higher priced car can still be justified if it pleases the owner. Currently I know a person who wants an Evo8 quite badly, but wouldn't be caught dead in it during his commute, so is condemned to more "respectable and less childish" cars in his mind.

 

[Dan]

With art, women, cars, etc., beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
[...]

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. But seriously, as subjective as it is, styling is important no matter how loud people scream about a car's performance. And if style isn't important, then I can't explain why people have different haircuts.

I can see why people would criticize the Elise's styling. I actually didn't like the S2's styling at first from looking at pictures. I like the rounded curves you'd see on a NB Miata, an S1 Elise, an old 512, an E-Type, or even a shapely woman.

But then I saw the S2 in person. Maybe it was the vertical headlights or the hard edges or that it contrasted too much with the beloved S1 that first deterred me, but the car has presence. It looks better to me in person, and I grew to like the aggressive edgy style. It looks fast without moving.

I wish I could say the same for the Z4, which also looks better to me in person. I didn't care for the Z3's curves, and I like the Z4 for the most part, but I just can't get over the discordant lines on the side of the car. Tony Swan of C&D said it best when he said the side of the Z4 looks like it's been in an accident.

 

[Derek]

The Boxster is the car I was going to buy before the Elise came along. Like the Elise it’s focus is handling, not straight line performance. I also considered the M3. I liked the interior of the M3 and it was affordable for me, however it doesn’t look like a $60k car to me. That’s not to say it isn’t worth the money, I just feel it looks too much like a 3 series with new rims and ground effects. If I’m going to spend that kind of money on a car I want it to look special. I also considered the Corvette, I liked the performance of the Z06 (awesome car) I just don’t like the image that goes along with it. To tell the truth I really have been searching for something exotic. The Lotus is exotic but yet not too exotic. It can be driven everyday, although for me this will be a second (drive it when I feel like having fun) car

The Elise is the car that Porsche won’t build; a car that’s light and quick off the line. Even the Boxster S is slow (for a $60k sportscar) by today’s standards. Not that I’m a straight line junky, but the idea of being embarrassed by a Dodge Neon is just plainly not cool. The Elise has decent acceleration and excels at handling. Best of all it’s British just like me… It’s the right car for me and I will have fun with it. At the end of the day if you can say the same that’s all that really matters

 

[moose]

>>If I could afford a ferrari 360 I'd have one, even if the elise can beat it on the track. Those that say "don't get a ferrari because they cost $5K to do an oil change, etc., etc." are jealous, period. If you can afford a ferrari you can afford the maintenance. If you can't afford the maintenance then you obviously can't afford the car, but don't try and put it down.

That paragraph sums up anything this thread could hope to achieve.

I love my Lotus but if I could have an Aston or a Ferrari I would. I don'tknow if they'd put a smile on my face in quite the same was the 340r does, and to be honest I guess I'll never find out!

 

[DanH]

I want a koenigsegg

 

[ElisED]

Why do we care what others think of the Elise? What is important is what we thnk of it. I, for one, am glad that the Elise's appeal is not universal. If it were, I'd be #220 instead of #20 at my dealer.

 

[OneFastLotus]

Ive found that more than half of miata.net members are nerds and windbags. I feel as though I can say this because Ive been a member for many years. Although I dont consider myself to be a windbag...I may or may not be a nerd.


I read it for entertainment...but thats about it. I wouldnt DARE follow any advice in the power mods section as 90% of the people who answer questions about turbo miatas, have never owned a turbo miata and/or cant change their own oil.

Most speak on subjects they know little about and do it with an aire of authority. Just sit back and laugh. We're the ones who will have sexy sweet handling cars soon!

 

[Vantage]

I love my Lotus but if I could have an Aston or a Ferrari I would. I don'tknow if they'd put a smile on my face in quite the same was the 340r does, and to be honest I guess I'll never find out!

Please don't take this the wrong way, but my father has an Aston Martin on order and really the target audience is very different. The car's purpose is very different as well, so yes, on the track the Lotus will provide more smiles. In fact, I know more than one Aston owner that buys a lightweight car especially for tracking and leaves the AM for the road.

 

[jahwerx]

My First Post . .

http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155026&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[Randy Chase]

Re: My First Post . .

http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155026&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Welcome. Interesting thread. Some misinformation but not too bad.

 

[AutoXJunkie]

Ive found that more than half of miata.net members are nerds and windbags.

Very true, though I'd submit that the problem with miata.net in relation to the Elise is the way the board has trended towards miata 'purism'... the long-term contributors drive first-gen miatas and have mostly unfavorable opinions of more modern roadsters, even the NBs. They like what they deem 'classically styled roadsters', and the Elise isn't one.

Not a big deal, it's a free country. I'm still shedding my Miata for an Elise.

 

[BryanH]

Interesting comments about the S2 Elise styling. I learned from my first two car ownership experiences ('71 Plymouth Cuda and '87 Toyota MR2) that the looks of a car were far less important to me than the way it drove. I owned both those cars for almost a year, and despite the Cuda having the definite edge in the styling department, I found myself hardly driving it and taking the origami-styled MR2 everywhere.

To me the S2 Elise looks overdone, like it's trying too hard to attract attention. However I won't let that scare me. The proportions are great, as is the general shape. Initially I liked the S1 much better, but now after seeing the S2 I think the S1 is a bit too mild. Perhaps something in between would have been more appropriate to my mind.

Edit - yes I have seen an S1 and an S2 in person, in case anyone was wondering. An imported S1 used to run local autocross events, and I spotted this S2 in southern California back in April 2003: http://www.pbase.com/image/15217842

 

[Randy Chase]

http://www.miataforum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=013869

The standard Elise isn't that quick on the track - some tests here have shown that it's slower than many hot hatches on the track and only a couple of seconds quicker than a miata. 100mph in 18 seconds isn't very quick for something so uncompromising and impractical.

The hoods a joke, leaking like a sieve and taking about 5 minutes to put up, once the cloth has been unravelled, metal struts put into place and the thing tensioned with allen keys..

Standard Elises have pretty much no acceleration above 100mph, all topping out at 120-125mph - similar if not slower than a late 1.8i miata, if only in top speed.

 

[Modern Wedgie]

More elises for us! And that poor guy will be so sad the day he sees one of us fly past him in his miata on the street.

 

[strawtarget]

LOL! It took less than a minute to install the soft top on the 111S at autostrada in Austin. This one minute includes getting it out of the trunk, unrolling it, installing the 2 bars, figuring out which end goes where, and actually clamping it down.

Has this guy ever installed the tonneau cover on his Miata? It would take at least as long.


Also, FWIW, I'm not in love with the Elise's styling. I don't think it's ugly, but it's safe to say that I won't be buying the car for its looks. I think it looks better than a Miata or MR2, but there are much nicer-looking cars out there IMHO.

 

[ace3]

LOL! It took less than a minute to install the soft top on the 111S at autostrada in Austin. This one minute includes getting it out of the trunk, unrolling it, installing the 2 bars, figuring out which end goes where, and actually clamping it down.

Has this guy ever installed the tonneau cover on his Miata? It would take at least as long.


Also, FWIW, I'm not in love with the Elise's styling. I don't think it's ugly, but it's safe to say that I won't be buying the car for its looks. I think it looks better than a Miata or MR2, but there are much nicer-looking cars out there IMHO.

I'm flying down next weekend to take a look at the one at Autostrada.

What are the dates for the car show there? Maybe i'll swing by & check that out.

I'm HOPING there will be enough time to let me take it for a little spin.