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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
...but just in street driving. AO48s on slightly lighter than LSS wheels. Versus stock wheels with AD07s.

* The steering feels a bit heavier but is still pretty light

* Parts of the ride quality improved! Due to unsprung weight factors I suspect...the weight dropped quite a bit, especially for the rears. A certain train track crossing I go over frequently seems clearly better with the lighter rollers. I think the wheels are about 4-5 pound lighter up front and about 9-10 pounds apiece for the rears.

* Parts of the ride deteriorated. Broken surfaces, concrete and so forth, things with sharp sudden impacts come through much more emphatically on the AO48s. The 10% LSS spring rate change is more of a fine tuning thing and not really a ride thing. I don't have the LSS dampers on the car but it appears that the lion's share of the ride differences between LTS and LSS is due to the rubber. As expected.

* On many/most roads you don't really notice any ride difference.

* Tire noise is basically inaudible with the AD07s...but you can really hear the AO48s...even on the highway with the top down! It's not a low loud roar...it sorta sounds like more wind noise. I wouldn't call it unbearable, but you will certainly notice it the first time you get the car up to speed a bit. I'll have to check but I don't think I really noticed it much at say 25 MPH.

* The steering feel going into turns is better (turn-in) and there is markedly less tendency to wash out with understeer. I haven't yet cornered the car at the limit....but I can note that when you hit the ABS it allows the tires to make different sounds. The car feels more capable and confident with the grippier rubber.

* Does anyone know the low temperature limit for the AO48s? There is some temperature below which they are not supposed to experience cuz it will hurt the compound. I guess it leads to some permanent changes, but there is not a great deal of information on this matter. I'm not talking about where they grip best or at what temp they start to get squittish on cold tires. For example I think the AD07s are not supposed to experience sub 14 F temperatures.
 

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it sorta sounds like more wind noise.
When that noise starts up, you should hear your car from behind (or maybe just outside the car). My friends say it sounds like someone screaming. I kinda like that idea!
 

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I found that the sidewall of the 48 was much stiffer than that of the 39's the Exige came with. Grip was far superior once the tires were warm.

As far as temps - I don't drive on the street but I can say that under 50 degrees the tires take quite awhile (2 laps) to get up to temp and even then I don't think they get to the temp they do on a "hot" track. Mix wet conditions and less than 50 degrees and it can become like ice skates on the 48's in my experence.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I found the temp limit of the AO48...on the tire tread sticker. It may also be in our manuals. So don't let them see any cold stuff, even if they are just sitting. They also prefer to be stored deflated and unloaded if they are off the car.

 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
>>>I'd be interested in hearing from Yokohama what the damage
would/might occur if the tires are used or stored below -10C. <<<

Me too. I don't know what Yokohama would say, but Hoosier says:

"Don't store tires in sub-freezing temperatures for any length of time. (The rubber can freeze and may crack as a result.) "

I have also heard that if stored below some temperature while holding up a car for long amounts of time the tire can get a flat spot that may not fully go away when the car gets used again.

You should also make sure stored tires are in a darkish spot out of the sunlight, are not kept wet, and that they are not near ozone producing devices such as electric motors. Some don't mind being inflated, some should be kept at zero psi and stacked no more than 4 high to protect the bottom tire.
 

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Thanks fro the info, Stan. When I get mine I will put them in a 70 degree basement uninflated on their side. I will not take them off the wheel, though. What a pain that would be.

I don't plan to drive theLotus in really cold temps, so that's not an issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
>>>Thanks fro the info, Stan. When I get mine I will put them in a 70 degree basement uninflated on their side. I will not take them off the wheel, though. What a pain that would be. <<<

It would be a good idea to put them in heavy plastic bags too. So that light and ozone can't get to them. I haven't heard what Yokohama would suggest but it would likely be wise to drop the pressures way down. Many folks ignore this stuff and don't have lightning bolts strike them FWIW. These concepts are just a way to get the very, very most out of your rubber.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
>>>Would plastic bags be ok, I'd think you might have problems with moisture. I think blackwatch or sector 111 have a wheel bag. <<<

Well if the bag is porous or clothe or whatever it could help with light but not ozone. If the area is at a fairly constant temperature condensation won't be an issue. And moisture is generaly low in the Winter time anyway. I've been storing tires over the years at about room temperature in heavy leaf type bags tied shut.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
>>>Spent an hour behind dan on concrete highway. Are we talking loud, they howl!! <<<

So the AO48 guys are bothering the other traffic eh? I don't know about the 48s, but some tires get noisier as they wear down too, hopefully the 48s won't change too much.
 

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I seem to remember that Lotus always said do not put the A048 on the base car. I don't think we want to encourage people to do 1/2 of a Sports Pack conversion. I trust Lotus to design the suspension and if they say the steering rack needs to be in a different position along with the other changes I am inclined to believe them.

Also where did the LTS come from? Is that a Lotus term? I have never seen it used until recently.
 

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Patricko said:
Also where did the LTS come from? Is that a Lotus term? I have never seen it used until recently.
I believe that it was the invention of a poster or two on here that didn't like having to say that they bought the car with the 'base' or 'standard' suspension. Not that there's anything wrong with that (Nice title)...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
>>>I seem to remember that Lotus always said do not put the A048 on the base car. I don't think we want to encourage people to do 1/2 of a Sports Pack conversion. I trust Lotus to design the suspension and if they say the steering rack needs to be in a different position along with the other changes I am inclined to believe them. <<<

Oh I believe them too. This won't affect impact action and tire noise though. I have the sport springs though they won't be on the car for a few more days...only a 10% rate change though, and pretty evenly front/back. The rack gets spaced 8 mm higher on the LSS cars...via the rack shims you can see in the footwells. They have not yet come in for me. Maybe I'll just make one using the stock pieces. I won't be using the sport dampers as I will use an aftermarket unit. The LTS units should be useable at least temporarily as the spring rate is so close...the bump stop and valving are not perfect though. I need to get me a spring compressor that can handle these small diameter barrel shaped springs (the last coil or so on each end is of smaller diameter)

>>>Also where did the LTS come from? Is that a Lotus term? I have never seen it used until recently.<<<

Well LTS is a Lotus term...I think it means Lotus Tuned Suspension. It's even molded into regular and sport tires! If memory serves it might be that LSS is the unofficial term. With the S standing for sport. In that case some say the T could also mean touring. And of course both were tuned by Lotus.
 

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Stan said:
Well LTS is a Lotus term...I think it means Lotus Tuned Suspension. It's even molded into regular and sport tires! If memory serves it might be that LSS is the unofficial term. With the S standing for sport. In that case some say the T could also mean touring. And of course both were tuned by Lotus.
Don't all of the Elises have Lotus Tuned Suspension by default?

The A048s have LTS molded into them and it is just Yokohama's designator that these are the Lotus version...
 

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LTS is certainly faster to type than alternatives.

On the AO48s,I'll only have them on when i drive to and from AutoXs, and only after I have converted my suspension to LSS. Otherwise will continue to run the Advans on the LTS wheels, even after the conversion to LSS.
 

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Stan said:
>>>I seem to remember that Lotus always said do not put the A048 on the base car. I don't think we want to encourage people to do 1/2 of a Sports Pack conversion. I trust Lotus to design the suspension and if they say the steering rack needs to be in a different position along with the other changes I am inclined to believe them. <<<

Oh I believe them too. This won't affect impact action and tire noise though. I have the sport springs though they won't be on the car for a few more days...only a 10% rate change though, and pretty evenly front/back. The rack gets spaced 8 mm higher on the LSS cars...via the rack shims you can see in the footwells. They have not yet come in for me. Maybe I'll just make one using the stock pieces. I won't be using the sport dampers as I will use an aftermarket unit. The LTS units should be useable at least temporarily as the spring rate is so close...the bump stop and valving are not perfect though. I need to get me a spring compressor that can handle these small diameter barrel shaped springs (the last coil or so on each end is of smaller diameter)...
so do-it-yourself conversion from LTS to LSS is quite feasible?

all parts are available? -> same springs from eibach, even better (single-adjustable) shocks let's say from kony, yokohama tires or better, and i have been hearing about aftermarket wheel options, and those steering rack shims from someplace (lotus?)?

could you give a rough estimate on cost of these extra parts?

and number of hours of labor for the conversion?

and seems like all of this should be scca stock-legal.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
>>>so do-it-yourself conversion from LTS to LSS is quite feasible? <<<

Sure, it's easy. Use LSS wheels and tires or aftermarket of the same size. Change out the spring/dampers. Change the two rack shims. Realign car. If you use dampers with the springs already on them, then it's just two bolts at each corner of the car. If not you need to put the springs onto the dampers which is easy (no tools) on threaded body coil overs. Or a bit harder (need a spring compressor) for the Lotus Bilsteins.

In my case I will be using aftermarket dampers but for now I will load the sport springs onto the normal dampers.

Again the differences are:

* Wheels and tires.

* Rack shims

* Springs / dampers

along with an alignment job.

For the SCCA the dampers are pretty much open, the springs must correspond to the other parts, shims too and the wheels must be the proper diameter and width, and the offset must be close (5-6 mm). Wheel alignment must be within the achievable stock range without making / changing parts.

From Lotus the Springs are something like 57 bux apiece if I recall correctly.
 

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masheen said:
so do-it-yourself conversion from LTS to LSS is quite feasible?

all parts are available? -> same springs from eibach, even better (single-adjustable) shocks let's say from kony, yokohama tires or better, and i have been hearing about aftermarket wheel options, and those steering rack shims from someplace (lotus?)?

could you give a rough estimate on cost of these extra parts?

and number of hours of labor for the conversion?

and seems like all of this should be scca stock-legal.
Been there, talked about that. 1st, SCCA is not a problem. 2nd, I have not priced out the steering rack shim, but it should be cheap to buy, a bit of a pain to change out. The rest is in this thread
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6217

But I will post my findings here for you, too, anyway. I'm ordering what I need, but waiting on the dampers for the Koni adjustable solution.

"Pricing of conversion-LTS to LSS
Okay, got the skinny on pricing out the conversion from Rothrock parts and then Rothrock service:

Parts-

front and rear LSS dampers (in the book they are actually listed as "Exige" dampers): $199.46 X 4 = $797.84

"Exige" front coilovers: $57.23 X 2 = $114.46
"Exige" rear coilovers: $59.28 X 2 = $118.55

Labor to convert, including shims and camber/toe measurements:
$160 front pair, $160 back pair, total $320.

So the total excluding the wheels is $1,350.93 + tax. Keeping the LTS dampers or supplying your own would bring the cost down to $553.09 + tax.

Those dampers are not that expensive, but I'll probably leave my LTS ones on until I'm ready to put adjustable ones on.

Hope this helps!!

Jer"
 
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