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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In general, my V8's gearbox and clutch work well. Although, at times, it's hard to get into first gear when warm (I need to either go into 3rd first, or lift the reverse collar and swing the shifter all the way to the left before grabbing 1st), so I am going through the clutch to make sure everything is in spec.

So I've bleed the crap out of the clutch as a first step, and it seemed to get a little better. So now I am checking the clutch pedal travel.

The manual states that the pedal should be at 170-175mm from the back side, bottom of the pedal to the compressed carpet. Mine is at 165mm. I do not appear to have a pedal upstop on my 98.

The manual then says it should have 90-95mm of pedal travel. I have 135mm! :panic:

It doesn't add up. If I have to adjust the master cylinder pushrod to bring the pedal out 10mm to meet the 175 limit, and then adjust the pedal stop out 50mm to stop it with 95mm of pedal travel, the pedal stop screw would have to be replaced with a longer one.

And if I have to cut out 40mm of pedal travel, I think it would make it really hard to grab 1st.

What's going on?
 

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How far off the floor does the clutch seem to engage?
Unless it's grabbing right off the naps of the carpet the issue is something else...
 

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Are you using the 93-97 manual? The master cylinder and pedal box seutp was changed in 1998 and I believe you are looking at the specs for the earlier models.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Mikelr,

Are you talking about clutches in general, or are you speaking from experience with the Esprit twin plate clutch?

From what I have heard from others, the Esprit twin plate is NOT designed to grab as soon as you pick it up from the bottom. Mine doesn't engage at all until it's almost at the top and then it's all on all of a sudden.

Others have told me this is normal and I even had some experts drive the car before I took delivery to see if it's normal, and they said yes.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Are you using the 93-97 manual? If I'm not mistaken, the master cylinder and pedal box seutp was changed in 1998 and I believe you are looking at the specs for the earlier models.
Thanks! This seems to be the only logical explanation.

The manual I have just says S4 and V8.

It does talk about the twin plate clutch, but it does not say which years of the V8 it covers.

I know they made a lot of changes to the gear change in 1998, so I wouldn't be surprised if the pedal box is different too.

Does anyone know the clutch pedal travel specs for a 1998?
 

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I would venture that your problem is not pedal travel. If you're sure it's been bled properly, then it's probably starting to have a little clutch drag which happens as the clutch gets worn and the grease dries up on the input shaft...How old is the clutch?

I've never seen the specs for anything after 97 unless it was issued in a TSB or supplement but someone must have it somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I would venture that your problem is not pedal travel. If you're sure it's been bled properly, then it's probably starting to have a little clutch drag which happens as the clutch gets worn and the grease dries up on the input shaft...How old is the clutch?

I've never seen the specs for anything after 97 unless it was issued in a TSB or supplement but someone must have it somewhere.
The clutch is about 3 months and about 500 easy going highway miles old.
 

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Phil,
I was just trying to ascertain whether your master cylinder was bled properly by asking that question.
If the clutch grabs high and with little slip that is how the twin plate reacts. I do have experience with this clutch setup.
If you can get the shifter in gear with a bit of gear tooth grind that would be indicative of synco wear. Slipping into 3rd will stop the input shaft from spinning allowing engagement of first gear with no issue. If you have not experience any gear tooth grind of any kind while trying to get the transmission into 1st you may (especially with your comment about pulling the reverse collar and pulling the shifter to the left then into 1st) have an issue with the adjustment of the gear shift translators on the rear of the transmission.
 

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What oil do you have in the transmission? That has an effect on how it shifts hot and cold. Is it filled to the level plug? If it is not full that also has an effect on shifting. Try not to touch the clutch pedal adjustments, chances are they are OK if they have not been messed with. The clutch in the V-8 bleeds easily, it just takes a lot of fluid to do it and get all of the air out. If you only have 500 miles on the clutch it is not worn in yet and may drag a little for a while. The transmission should have either Redline or Castrol in it. The '98 has the translator mechanism in the shift linkage. You may have to clean and lubricate it and adjust it. If whoever did the clutch had the flywheel resurfaced and did not remachine the step properly that might be causing problems with clutch disengagment. You will not fix that by trying to adjust for more pedal travel. Even with a perfect clutch and a well set-up transmission and linkage, it is still hard getting into 1st. Sometimes you have to really push it to get it in. You should NOT have trouble getting into reverse. The car must not be moving. On the pre '99 set-up shifting is a little harder because of the translator. Make sure nothing is loose and there is no lost motion because of worn parts. You have the correct specs but when I measured mine it didn't fit the specs either but it works so I left it alone. If you do attempt to adjust make marks so you can put it back if it isn't better.
David Teitelbaum
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Phil,
I was just trying to ascertain whether your master cylinder was bled properly by asking that question.
If the clutch grabs high and with little slip that is how the twin plate reacts. I do have experience with this clutch setup.
If you can get the shifter in gear with a bit of gear tooth grind that would be indicative of synco wear. Slipping into 3rd will stop the input shaft from spinning allowing engagement of first gear with no issue. If you have not experience any gear tooth grind of any kind while trying to get the transmission into 1st you may (especially with your comment about pulling the reverse collar and pulling the shifter to the left then into 1st) have an issue with the adjustment of the gear shift translators on the rear of the transmission.
Thanks, Mike.

None of the forward gears grind, ever. Thank goodness. I never force shifts to make sure they stay healthy. The reverse gear occasionally grinds a little, but I hear that's normal since it doesn't have a real synchro. So I feel good about the synchros.

I was going to check the shift linkage next, but this clutch pedal travel issue had me stumped.

I am not sure how the adjustment is done for the shift linkage on my car because there are no shift "translators" in the 1998 and beyond. From the manual on changes to the model years:

"1998 V8: Revised twin cable gearchange mechanism dispenses with translator. Modified transmission selector cross shaft."

So it turns out that I found references to 1998 and 1999 V8's in this manual, which is a good thing. But I can't find any details on how to check the adjustment of gear change mechanism on the 1998 V8's and beyond. I can tell you that the gear change is a refreshingly more simple design than pre-98.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
What oil do you have in the transmission? That has an effect on how it shifts hot and cold. Is it filled to the level plug? If it is not full that also has an effect on shifting. Try not to touch the clutch pedal adjustments, chances are they are OK if they have not been messed with. The clutch in the V-8 bleeds easily, it just takes a lot of fluid to do it and get all of the air out. If you only have 500 miles on the clutch it is not worn in yet and may drag a little for a while. The transmission should have either Redline or Castrol in it. The '98 has the translator mechanism in the shift linkage. You may have to clean and lubricate it and adjust it. If whoever did the clutch had the flywheel resurfaced and did not remachine the step properly that might be causing problems with clutch disengagment. You will not fix that by trying to adjust for more pedal travel. Even with a perfect clutch and a well set-up transmission and linkage, it is still hard getting into 1st. Sometimes you have to really push it to get it in. You should NOT have trouble getting into reverse. The car must not be moving. On the pre '99 set-up shifting is a little harder because of the translator. Make sure nothing is loose and there is no lost motion because of worn parts. You have the correct specs but when I measured mine it didn't fit the specs either but it works so I left it alone. If you do attempt to adjust make marks so you can put it back if it isn't better.
David Teitelbaum
Thanks, David.

I will leave the clutch pedal alone as you suggest and move on.

The gearbox should have Redline MT90. At least that's what Viking said they put in it when they did the clutch a few months ago. I won't know for sure if they machined the flywheel right without pulling the gearbox. Something I will leave for last after I am sure everything else is working.

I just requested TAF-X from JAE, they told me they could get it, but I just got the bottles from them today and they are not TAF-X. It's the Syntrans, which is not the same. I am checking if I can order the TAF-X directly from Europe. I know a lot of people swear by MT90, but TAF-X is still the recommended oil, so I want to try it.

Do you know where are the instructions for adjusting the shift linkage in the 98's? I can't find it in the manual. I can see the parts listed, but no instructions or specs, but since it is 2000 pages long, I may be missing it.

Thanks!
 

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Phil,
Don't sweat the oil not being TAF-X, I ran MT-90 for many years and tons of track days with no issues, the Syntrans is also good stuff. Fluid is relatively cheap and it doesn't take a lot so frequent changes would not break the bank and give you piece of mind.
About adjusting the linkage, for starters just inspect the cable connections in the rear, check for loose fasteners, the fact that it has just started misbehaving points to something loosening up. You may just have to do some tightening. :)
 

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An important thing to check is that you have got 2 - 5mm of free play in the clutch pedal in it's return position.

Regarding the 170 - 175 mm distance from the pedal to the bulk head, this is measured from the underside of the pedal (with the rubber removed) to the bulkhead with the carpet compressed hard. TBH, if it's very close I wouldn't worry about it and I suspect (from the photograph) that with the rubber removed yours looks like it will be pretty close.

Regarding the amount of pedal travel you have, from your photographs the pedal stop has got plenty of adjustment on it. You don't need to move it 40 mm to reduce the travel by 40 mm due to the pivot point and angle of the pedal.
 

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Adjusting the shift linkage on the non-translator gearboxes is very similar (but much simpler!) than the translator gearbox.

Disconnect the cables from the gearbox cross shaft with the transmission in neutral.

Hold the gear lever in the vertical front to rear position. It's spring loaded to centralise on the 3rd / 4th gear position left to right.

Re-attach the cables to the gearbox cross shaft without any preload on them.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Great info, Sailorbob!

I will check the shifter adjustment tomorrow.
 

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Even though the manual is 2000 pages, everything you need on the clutch is in section QE. Look on pages 6 & 7.
David Teitelbaum
 

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David,

If you're referring to the 93-97 Service Notes, those clutch pedal specs won't apply to a 98 and later as the clutch pedal and master cylinder were changed, different setup...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Even though the manual is 2000 pages, everything you need on the clutch is in section QE. Look on pages 6 & 7.
David Teitelbaum
Those are the pages I had been looking at, and where I got my info for my first post on this thread. That secition doesn't cover the shifter adjustment, which is the section I was asking about.

But Sailorbob gave me the info.
 

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Great info, Sailorbob!

I will check the shifter adjustment tomorrow.

This may sound silly, but make sure the slave cylinder is bolted directly to the bell housing and the thin metal piece is on the outside and not between the cylinder and the housing. Ask me how i know that this can cause poor clutch engagement.
 
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