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Is it the same engine?


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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I know that subject sounds stupid, but I keep finding weird mixed answers, so I just want someone with knowledge to confirm what I already believe to be accurate-- the stock shortblock or longblock 2ZZ-GE from a Toyota Celica GT-S/Matrix XRS/etc is identical to the Lotus 2ZZ, plus the miscellaneous bolt-on accessories like the slave pulley replacing the power steering pump? I'm purchasing a brand new OEM shortblock from the Toyota dealership to replace my oil-starved Lotus one, and I can easily shift any parts from the old one over to the new, but I need to confirm that there are no drastic mechanical differences that would prevent me from doing that with regular tools.
 

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Probably worth mentioning that our driveline is a lightly custom variant of the 2005+ Celica GTS unit. Different gear ratios, but same shifter mechanism, manifolds, etc. The long block out of, say, a Pontiac Vibe GT is the same, but there are fitment differences in the plumbing, transmission gearing, and shifter linkage.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Probably worth mentioning that our driveline is a lightly custom variant of the 2005+ Celica GTS unit. Different gear ratios, but same shifter mechanism, manifolds, etc. The long block out of, say, a Pontiac Vibe GT is the same, but there are fitment differences in the plumbing, transmission gearing, and shifter linkage.
Now that's interesting, because I have 'only' heard that the transmission was a completely unmodified unit from the Celica. In my case, I'm keeping my Lotus tranny, but I'm still intrigued...
 

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No, Lotus uses the C64 and Celica used the C60, I believe. I know that the C64 has a different 6th gear. The only other difference would be the final ratio.
Later,
Eldon
 

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No, Lotus uses the C64 and Celica used the C60, I believe. I know that the C64 has a different 6th gear. The only other difference would be the final ratio.
Later,
Eldon
Learn something every day, thanks for the info!
 

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Probably worth mentioning that our driveline is a lightly custom variant of the 2005+ Celica GTS unit. Different gear ratios, but same shifter mechanism, manifolds, etc. The long block out of, say, a Pontiac Vibe GT is the same, but there are fitment differences in the plumbing, transmission gearing, and shifter linkage.
Notice in the video that all these are missing - oil filter, shifter cables, cat and muffler, fuel hoses, coolant hoses, etc. But the only differences on most of these are the shapes or lengths. They still connect to the same place on the engine using the same connectors and brackets. It is quite a bit more than a long block, almost fully dressed.


No, Lotus uses the C64 and Celica used the C60, I believe. I know that the C64 has a different 6th gear. The only other difference would be the final ratio.
Later,
Eldon
Final Ratio is the same in the C60 and C64 - 4.529. Only difference is 6th gear.
North American Celica GTS used the C60. The UK Celica 2ZZ and European/Japanese Corolla 2ZZ used the C64.
 
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Final Ratio is the same in the C60 and C64 - 4.529. Only difference is 6th gear.
North American Celica GTS used the C60. The UK Celica 2ZZ and European/Japanese Corolla 2ZZ used the C64.
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I thought but was not 100% positive.
Later,
Eldon
 

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Notice in the video that all these are missing - oil filter, shifter cables, cat and muffler, fuel hoses, coolant hoses, etc. But the only differences on most of these are the shapes or lengths. They still connect to the same place on the engine using the same connectors and brackets. It is quite a bit more than a long block, almost fully dressed.



Final Ratio is the same in the C60 and C64 - 4.529. Only difference is 6th gear.
North American Celica GTS used the C60. The UK Celica 2ZZ and European/Japanese Corolla 2ZZ used the C64.
Note my choice of donor engine: The Vibe/Matrix and Corolla have some different bits. Our engine is pretty much an as-delivered UK Celica driveline.

I knew there were differences in the ratios, but I didn't know where the C64 ratios were used other than in the 2ZZ Lotus cars. Thanks.
 

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If you put in the toyota 6th you will actually slow down after you shift from 5-6 at full throttle. It's shorter so that it is usable on the track. This continues to be true to at LEAST 280 whp.
 

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If you put in the toyota 6th you will actually slow down after you shift from 5-6 at full throttle. It's shorter so that it is usable on the track. This continues to be true to at LEAST 280 whp.
yes that is my understanding too. In my case I'm not worried about 6th gear on the track. The lower rpms on highway is what I would like
 

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6th on the US celica is all about getting the 55 mph fuel economy as high as possible, not optimized performance. The C64 gearing is even steps from 3rd on, which is what you'd expect on a sports car.
 

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Lotus removed the liquid to liquid oil filter cooler by adding the "U pipe" and lines to air to liquid oil cooler at the front of the car
 
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