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Being pleasant has never done a thing for me. I know it's a tough job, but come on. They could show some compassion every now and then. I mean really? Seat belt tickets??????
If you got a seatbelt ticket, either you got "that guy" who thinks he is doing his part to save you from yourself, or you did something which made him write that ticket. I don't blame you or blame the cop, it is what it is.

I will tell you though sometimes you don't have much of a choice. Politicians pass these laws to feel good that they are doing something and granted, it is safer to wear a belt, but is it their choice or yours?

Anyway, so maybe the community complains, or the mayor gets a hair up his rear about it, or the chief, who knows... then the shift gets told by the sergeant they are to go out to do seatbelt enforcement for the day and write tickets for it. It happens. Targeted traffic enforcement is not at all uncommon for certain municipalities.

Or, here's the other part of it... a cop may be just doing his job and something someone says or does triggers his CS response and you end up with one of those multi-page cites that has every little thing like headlight not aligned, windshield wipers not in good condition, bald tires, cracked windshield, rear view mirror obstruction with the dangling decorations, etc.

Thanks for the laugh :)

I admit that I deserved every ticket I've ever gotten. I'm always polite (except the two instances below). I answer their questions truthfully. That said, any LEO that comes to my house doesn't get inside without a warrant. (That's not true. I always let my father and brother in, but they were Feds.)
Sometimes cops don't need a warrant to get inside your house.

"Be nice and most will let you off." Hilarious. Unless you're BTB. Are you a Big Titted Blonde?
BTB's get tickets like anyone else. It's the attitude that matters more. This is one of those cases where personality does matter more than looks.
 
Thanks for the laugh :)
...
I got off with a warnings exactly twice.
...
My takeaway? When I'm sarcastic and indignant I get a warning. When I'm polite I get cited every time. (Not that I'm planning on being sarcastic and indignant next time.)
...
It always helps when you are right and can also express it.
I suspect that was more in your favor than sarcasm hurting your case.
 
Hey guys,

As one of the few members on here that Is both an exige owner and a police officer I'd like to share a few humble thoughts with you.

As it relates to motor vehicle stops, Yes, attitude can play a small part, however in my professional opinion the two things that play the biggest part are this; the totality of the circumstances, And reasonableness. Meaning how reasonable is the action / offense that occurred? And would a reasonable person expect me to take action?

The laws can be upheld in a few different ways, for instance: The letter of the law, meaning if you travel 26mph in a 25mph zone then you are in violation. Or the Spirit of the law, meaning if you travel 26mph in a 25mph zone is it reasonable to believe you were trying to do the right thing? Yes!

Depending on the circumstances there is a time and a place for both. -poke- BTW these are only very basic examples ... Please do not flame me and ask when there would ever be a time to summons someone for 26 in a 25. Thank you :D

Two examples of totality of the circumstances and reasonableness are below:

if you're speeding at rush hour and placing motorists in danger well you can possibly expect to get a summons. It makes no difference to me whether your polite or rude , you are entitled to be what ever way you choose. My concern is for the safety of motorists and the flow of traffic. Sometimes a warning will suffice, however if I go back to my vehicle and see you have been warned ten times prior for the same offense well maybe you need a bit more motivation to stop the negative action.

On the other Hand... if your on that same stretch of roadway at 2am with not a car in sight, well in all likelihood I'm probably not going to bother you one bit for cruising along above speed limit. Unless the speed is excessive or other factors are at play. Again my concern here is for safety.... That includes your safety, my safety and the safety of the public at large.

I didn't write the laws and I may not agree with some of them but that's irrelevant. I'm a person too and I totally understand that no one wants a summons. It completely ruins your day! That said, I wasn't always a police officer. I also had my fair share of summonses, so I get it. However, I never once blamed the officer for my own actions. To that point I recognize that when ppl yell at me and call me pig or worse that they are not insulting me the person, they are mostly yelling at the uniform and upset with what I represent..... Consequences!!!

Now I don't speak for all LEO's however Id just like to say this to the person who started this thread.

I don't know you and contrary to what you believe but I choose to be in patrol! That's a choice I've made and I love every day I'm on the road. I consider myself blessed to help the ppl in the state of new jersey. I'm not disgruntled and I left a very well paying job In NYC to be a Police officer. We all put our pants on one leg at a time and while I'm sorry you have had less than favorable experiences with some officers please don't presume to think we are all one way or another.

Many of us die every year responding to calls and we willingly place our lives in direct danger for complete strangers that we have never met. Like i said I don't know you, but if you asked for my help I would come. I would do that for you!!! and I ask for absolutely nothing return!!! All while you bad mouth everything I represent.

That said....if you insist that we are ALL bad and ONLY took our job because we were picked on in school then this is my suggestion. Next time you call for a first responder just remember that in places like NJ the police respond first...... If you hate what I represent so much then next time you need help I challenge you to call a crackhead instead of 9-1-1. See how that works for you.

Best of luck. :shift:
 
I will tell you that what you did and how you react will be the big determining factors. If you California roll a stop sign at o'dark thirty when there is absolutely nobody around but you yell and scream and act the fool when you get stopped, you might just end up with a CS 2 page long citation listing every equipment violation along with the mover, that is... if you don't get towed or something worse.

Or if you are speeding along maybe 15mph over an open road, and you apologize and accept responsibility for what you did, you just might get a warning.

As the poster above said, of course, anything reckless or endangering the public will probably negate any good attitude points on your part. However, the contact itself will still be as comfortable as it can be inside your car and be expedited so you can be on your way or it can be very uncomfortable, like in the back of the patrol car or sitting on a cold damp curb or face down on burning asphalt, and a lot of that is up to you.

Cops ultimately are people from the same population as any other group of people. There are good and bad and different motivations for becoming a cop. However, most people with bad motivations or some psychological issues to work out usually wash out in the selection phase or in the academy.
 
But being a soldier is a truly noble profession!

I like LUKN4UBL signature, but those rough man ready for battle are not BLUE they are green!:D...just sayin
Wow...this is an old thread I was involved in! For some reason I didn't read the comments after my post in 5/09 because it was one of many anti-law enforcement threads I felt compelled to get involved in.

As prior military, I would agree with the first part of this statement. As a current fed that is currently deployable to Afghanistan, where several of my colleagues in the DEA, ATF, Air Force Office of Special Investigations and Diplomatic Security Service (to name a few) have been killed or wounded, I would say the second half of the statement is ill informed and self-serving. Thanks for your service. But in your narrow view, not every guy out there carrying an M4 and not wearing a uniform is an SF operator.

https://badgeofbravery.ncjrs.gov/winners2012/Piersante_group.html

Special Agents Joseph Piersante, Jared Johnson, Justin Vanderbilt, Paul Harris, Brent Poortinga, Matthew Fischer and Matthew Stewart

(Drug Enforcement Administration)

Throughout October 30–31, 2011, in furtherance of the Drug Enforcement Administration's (DEA) drug law enforcement mission in Afghanistan, Special Agents of the DEA's foreign-deployed Advisory Support Team conducted counter-narcotics/counter-insurgency operations with their police partners from the Afghan National Interdiction Unit, assisted by the Australian Defense Forces.

This task force departed their base via four helicopters as part of a mission to execute Afghan drug warrants and to search for narcotics caches and heroin production labs. The team began to search the target area and accompanying opium bazaar when they began to receive sporadic incoming enemy fire. They accomplished their assigned duties and then maneuvered to the extraction location, all while under sporadic enemy fire.

When the task force arrived at the helicopter landing zones, they continued to receive effective enemy fire. One of the four helicopters was forced to make an additional orbit and subsequently land in the vicinity of Special Agents Piersante, Johnson, Vanderbilt, Harris, Stewart, Fischer, and Poortinga and five members from the Australian Special Forces. This helicopter landed under fire.

Special Agent Piersante laid down suppressive fire, which enabled Special Agents Stewart, Harris, and Fischer to board the helicopter. Once inside, Special Agent Stewart continued applying suppressive fire. Special Agent Stewart directed an Afghan door gunner to initiate suppressive fire in an attempt to cover the remaining members of the team still outside the helicopter. Special Agent Piersante was approximately 10 meters from the rear of the helicopter when he was subsequently hit by enemy fire. The round penetrated his ballistic helmet, entered above his right eye and exited above his left eye, and he was immediately rendered unconscious and fell to the ground.

Special Agent Poortinga positioned himself at the rear of the helicopter and continued laying down suppressive fire as Special Agent Piersante was being assisted into the helicopter. He instinctively put himself in harm’s way and returned fire until all personnel were onboard the helicopter. As the helicopter took off, Special Agents Vanderbilt, Johnson, and Harris immediately rendered first aid to Special Agent Piersante and controlled his bleeding, maintained an open airway, and stabilized him. Special Agent Piersante was eventually transferred to the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Richmond, Virginia for continued treatment and rehabilitation. The actions of all the special agents involved both before and following the shooting were clearly heroic.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
Hey guys,

As one of the few members on here that Is both an exige owner and a police officer I'd like to share a few humble thoughts with you.
Police officers come from the Human race and hence inherit all that is human, the good, the bad, the ugly. Our next door neighbor has been two different generations of police officer (patrol) ... and they are worlds apart in terms of attitude, life philosophy, and more.

One is well balanced, fair, understanding, and goes about the business of "protect and serve", someone that I consider a friend, great guy.

The other police officer is on a Power trip -- for example, I saw his son (college kid) do a burn out from the far left turn lane, take a red light and cross over and do a right turn (across the intersection with 3 lanes of other cars coming) and proceeded at a very high rate of speed almost hitting another car coming out of a shopping center (well over 80 mph in 35 zone). So the next day we (wife and I) talked to our police officer neighbor and let him know what we saw with his kid and his response was "mind your own business".

Not the response I expected, we informed him for his own good as we have no real interest it his kids behavior -- if his kid kills someone while driving it's not going to be our problem, but it will be his!

I'm not sure how effective the Academy filter system is, but obviously it can't catch all bad human traits and/or some officers are better at hiding them. But as with all people, evaluate their interaction and body language and manage the interaction to provide the best result (whatever one wants that result to be).

Now, what I really would like to know from a Police Officer ... why do I never see people get pulled over for texting while driving? I'm exposed to this at least 20-30 times per day (very obvious to see/catch), but I never see a police officer pull these folks over? So many people are killed every year because of this problem, yet it's almost completely ignored by police. Is there some inherit problem in the law that makes it not enforceable? Would love hear your thoughts on this.

Rob.
 
Now, what I really would like to know from a Police Officer ... why do I never see people get pulled over for texting while driving? I'm exposed to this at least 20-30 times per day (very obvious to see/catch), but I never see a police officer pull these folks over? So many people are killed every year because of this problem, yet it's almost completely ignored by police. Is there some inherit problem in the law that makes it not enforceable? Would love hear your thoughts on this.
Now imagine you, as a regular driver, driving the way you normally drive, rolling stop signs, speeding over the limit, texting, making illegal turns and straddling lanes, etc.

Now imagine you driving around with a black and white in the area. Are you still the same driver or did your habits suddenly change and you revert back to the by the book driver you were when you took your driver's license road test?

How often do you think cops see flagrant displays of flaunting the law in their presence? It's not what you think where cops have all these people running around breaking the law in front of them.

However, you will be surprised how often people get caught when a cop is rolling in a plain car like LAPD CRASH used to do or even with slick top traffic units. They think a cop is not around so they act the fool and then you roll down the window and see the look on their face....
 
I took the car on the road yesterday to break in the tires. Was doing close to 80 in a 55 (straight road, no traffic) and cop popped up over the hill in the oncoming lane. He just flashed his lights, pointed down (to slow down) and then gave me a thumbs up and big smile.
:D :nanner:
 
I have associated with all types of cops throughout my life due to close family relations in law enforcement. CHP officers are the most flagrant violators I have met. And I know all levels from local small town cops all the way up to federal agents. I've been in the back seat while a CHP was towing a trailer doing 90 slamming beer coming back from an illegal poaching trip. I know it's a tough job, but of all the different agencies, I have personally seen more CHP officers drive intoxicated than all others combined. Way too much attitude of the law doesn't apply to me! I'm sure there are some good ones out there, but I've seen too much behind the scenes!
 
Looks like I am going to get sucked into this thread. Yes, I'm in law enforcement. I spent a few years on the street to springboard into federal law enforcement just like you said in your quote. As a young officer in my early 20's I marginally enjoyed running traffic, only because I was hoping for a vehicle carrying a load of dope or some other glamorous charge. What I didn't think about while I was young and indestructible was the fact that I could walk up to any car and not come home to my wife and (at the time) infant daughter because the person in the car was wanted for something I had no indication of or some drunk driver hit me while I was talking to the person on the side of the road. What I enjoyed even less was encountering someone with a chip on their shoulder because my own generation was taught to distrust law enforcement for some reason. My how things have changed following 9/11 where everyone waved to the police and thanked them for putting their lives on the line.

Think about this....law enforcement is a type "A" personality profession. Cars such as the Elise are also enjoyed by the type "A" personality. Did you stop and think they were admiring your car?

I will tell you this, I NEVER, EVER wrote a ticket to someone that was respectful and honest to me during the traffic stop (unless they had warrants). If I walked up to the car and the person greeted me and waited for me to ask them why I stopped them and they responded with some embarrassment that they were rocking out to the radio, just had a fight with their spouse or just wasn't paying attention to their speed and it got away from them and they were sorry, I had no desire to write them. I brought it to their attention and let them go. Believe me, that was usually the exception, not the rule.

Do me a favor and check your own attitude and behavior before painting an entire noble profession with a broad stroke.
I know I'm going back for this quote, but much of these opinions can stem from where you live.

I won't lie, I have a strong distaste for traffic enforcement officers. I live in the Midwest and have generally lived in areas where we have more cops than sense. I do appreciate some aspects of this, but then I also have to deal with so much stupid bull****. I have been pulled over for having too dark of tint, for having too loud of an exhaust (it wasn't even THAT loud...), for having no front plate, for going like 7 mph over on the interstate... etc.

Do I think these officers have a chip on their shoulder? Nope. These areas (apparently) have so little crime that the officers have nothing better to do. They are not high drug trafficking areas or anything. They just pull anybody over for all this stupid ****. It gets on my nerves so bad. Seriously, my exhaust being half as loud as a Harley isn't hurting anyone. You're not keeping anyone safe. What's the big deal? Oh yeah, revenue generation. Wait, I don't want to drill holes in the front bumper of my low mileage, damn near perfect condition TT 300zx for some front plates? I must be a lunatic.

Just my two cents. Some places need to just stop overhiring (traffic) LEOs.
 
I have associated with all types of cops throughout my life due to close family relations in law enforcement. CHP officers are the most flagrant violators I have met. And I know all levels from local small town cops all the way up to federal agents. I've been in the back seat while a CHP was towing a trailer doing 90 slamming beer coming back from an illegal poaching trip. I know it's a tough job, but of all the different agencies, I have personally seen more CHP officers drive intoxicated than all others combined. Way too much attitude of the law doesn't apply to me! I'm sure there are some good ones out there, but I've seen too much behind the scenes!
+1
 
Local police here are very nice.

Now, NJ State Police have been sued many, many times.

Not just by civilians, but by members of the force: Minorities, women, whistleblowers, etc.

This has been going on >40 yrs. To my knowledge, they have lost every suit.

In my former town, ritzy Short Hills, 90% of those pulled over were non-white. They were always nice to me....except when I drove my beater, dented 510 Datsun.

In nearby Morris Plains got a ticket for flashing headlights to warn of radar "trap". I read the law, knew I was right. (I will flash lights to warn of deer about to cross and for other safety purposes.)

Didn't matter: judge was undeterred and wouldn't listen. Cop mentioned this was by an elementary school (heavens!!) I pointed out that kids don't normally go to school at 10 PM...

Note: Whenever a cop uses "furtive movements" as an excuse for pulling someone over, stop/frisking, etc, I generally believe that copy is lying.

That BS also started 40 yrs ago.
 
I know I'm going back for this quote, but much of these opinions can stem from where you live.

I won't lie, I have a strong distaste for traffic enforcement officers. I live in the Midwest and have generally lived in areas where we have more cops than sense. I do appreciate some aspects of this, but then I also have to deal with so much stupid bull****. I have been pulled over for having too dark of tint, for having too loud of an exhaust (it wasn't even THAT loud...), for having no front plate, for going like 7 mph over on the interstate... etc.

Do I think these officers have a chip on their shoulder? Nope. These areas (apparently) have so little crime that the officers have nothing better to do. They are not high drug trafficking areas or anything. They just pull anybody over for all this stupid ****. It gets on my nerves so bad. Seriously, my exhaust being half as loud as a Harley isn't hurting anyone. You're not keeping anyone safe. What's the big deal? Oh yeah, revenue generation. Wait, I don't want to drill holes in the front bumper of my low mileage, damn near perfect condition TT 300zx for some front plates? I must be a lunatic.

Just my two cents. Some places need to just stop overhiring (traffic) LEOs.
You make a valid point. I was fuming about a month ago after an encounter I had with CHP. Once I identified myself as being armed law enforcement when he approached me, it turned into a condescending, demeaning experience. I let him have his fun and went on my way, humbly. I would never have treated a citizen, let alone a fellow officer in the way I was treated. I've worked with CHP in the past when I worked protective details, and they were pretty good to work with.

I'd be tempted to paint all of CHP with a broad brush after this experience, but I won't(actually, there are quite a few jokes about them in the LE community).
 
Local police here are very nice.

Now, NJ State Police have been sued many, many times.

Not just by civilians, but by members of the force: Minorities, women, whistleblowers, etc.

This has been going on >40 yrs. To my knowledge, they have lost every suit.

In my former town, ritzy Short Hills, 90% of those pulled over were non-white. They were always nice to me....except when I drove my beater, dented 510 Datsun.

In nearby Morris Plains got a ticket for flashing headlights to warn of radar "trap". I read the law, knew I was right. (I will flash lights to warn of deer about to cross and for other safety purposes.)

Didn't matter: judge was undeterred and wouldn't listen. Cop mentioned this was by an elementary school (heavens!!) I pointed out that kids don't normally go to school at 10 PM...

Note: Whenever a cop uses "furtive movements" as an excuse for pulling someone over, stop/frisking, etc, I generally believe that copy is lying.

That BS also started 40 yrs ago.
There is case precedence now where people have argued a violation of free speech by flashing your headlights and won. Too late to appeal?
 
You make a valid point. I was fuming about a month ago after an encounter I had with CHP. Once I identified myself as being armed law enforcement when he approached me, it turned into a condescending, demeaning experience. I let him have his fun and went on my way, humbly. I would never have treated a citizen, let alone a fellow officer in the way I was treated. I've worked with CHP in the past when I worked protective details, and they were pretty good to work with.

I'd be tempted to paint all of CHP with a broad brush after this experience, but I won't(actually, there are quite a few jokes about them in the LE community).

Probably one of my favorite instances of the local police biting themselves took place in Omaha (where I'm from) a few years back. There was a guy on a superbike that got clocked going about 155-160 mph down an interstate in Omaha. In Omaha there is a no-chase policy for motorcycles because these high speed pursuits can get dangerous. Well, as a good citizen should do, this motorcyclist took the next exit and waited for the cops to show up because he knew he'd gotten caught and wanted to do the right thing.

What happened next? They threw the entire f*cking book at him. No wonder every superbike rider I know runs from the cops... and half of them don't even use a license plate. Sure, many of these guys are stupid, but there are plenty that keep their go-fast time safe (i.e. empty roads, minimal traffic, no splitting cars, etc.). It just seemed counter-intuitive to punish a guy like that.
 
This is just my 2 cents about law enforcement. As I was growing up, I always wanted to become a cop. I wanted to catch the “bad guy” and find justice for the “good guys”. I played cops and robbers almost daily. Basically, I wanted to do good for the community. But due to a certain medical condition that I developed later in life, that dream have long been gone. I used to be very pro law enforcement throughout my younger years. I was one of those guys that felt that if a cop stopped you or arrested you, then you probably had it coming. Got beat down by the cops? You probably had it coming. Got tazed by the cops? You probably had it coming. Got bitched out by a cop? You probably had it coming. However, that all changed when I hit the age of reasoning.

I feel that once you become older, you have the ability to rationalize things better. One has to understand that law enforcement officers have NO obligation to protect and serve. That was ruled by the supreme court already. That is why I call them law enforcement officers instead of peace officers. They are there to enforce the laws. That’s it. That is why whenever you are pulled over, you don’t talk to the cops. You hand over your paperwork and just wait for the ticket. You are not obligated to say a damn thing because you have a right to remain silent. However, as recently ruled by the supreme court, you do have to declare that you are exercising your 5 th amendment right to remain silent. Then shut up. Anything you say or do WILL be used against you in the court of law PERIOD. The officer will be jotting down every little thing you say or did after the traffic stop. If you decide to go to court, it will be used against you. Have an excuse? Save it. He heard it a million times. He runs the street. Save it for court.

I do the same if I ever get a knock on the door by a police officer. It is within your rights to not speak or open the door for a police officer. If they have a warrant, your doors are coming down regardless. The fact that they are asking you if they can come in means that they don’t have one. You put yourself at unnecessary risk by voluntarily letting them in. It can be life changing for the worse. You need to understand that they are not there to help you. They are the evidence gatherers for the DA to prosecute you. They play off the ignorance of the public not knowing their rights. That to me is worse than a snake.

One of my very close friend is a retired peace officer and lives off of his pension now. Yes, he is a peace officer, not a law enforcement officer. There are many things that he told me that get me questioning the bulk of all police behavior. Some of which I should not reiterate. But believe me when I say that they do cover up mistakes of their own. Falsified reports are quite common. Yes, stretching the truth IS lying. My buddy has grown to hate law enforcement after having been a peace officer for so long.

I’ve heard too many stories and read too many articles about questionable police officer conduct. And this is in this DAY AND AGE where everyone has a camera. If they are still so bold knowing this fact, can you imagine how it was before? I will no longer allow myself to be put at risk just so that the officer “can get home safely to his/her family.”. Save that bull****. You are not forced to be a police officer. I don’t hear veterans complaining how they are human too and should be allowed to come home safely to their families. There are inherent dangers in all jobs and being in the service is much more dangerous than law enforcement. You chose to be a cop. Man up and deal with it. If you can’t deal with it then find another job. It’s that simple. People that say being a police officer is noble have a screwed up definition of the word. Being a firefighter is noble, not a law enforcement officer.

I understand that not all law enforcement officers are bad. But given the amount of bad incidents out there, you have to be stupid to give up your rights in the name of “officer safety”. I am thankful for all the good cops out there that have it in their heart to do the community well. But you can thank your corrupt colleagues for the bad brush that all cops are painted with. And the ones that see the bad and not say anything because you don’t want to break the brotherly code, you’re just as guilty as the doer. It’s because of this that I have no respect for cops for the interests of my OWN safety. Ironic isn’t it?
 
So by some admissions, you admit to knowing the laws regarding exhausts, tint, front plate, etc., and willingly break those laws for whatever reason, and THEN complain when you get busted for it? So which laws do you get to choose to follow and which ones you don't? Do you get to pick the severity and determine some laws are just silly? That is about the same excuse as drunk drivers, child molesters, thieves, drug dealers, etc., all use too. Oh, it's stupid, don't you have other things to do... I ain't hurtin' nobody....

You don't like those laws, complain to your state law makers. You can also move to another city where cops are "busy" with real crime. Heck, you can move out of state to a more free state with no requirement for those things. Or, here's the alternative, you know the law, you break the law, you get caught and punished according to the law, then you man up and take it like a man because you chose to break the law and got caught. Don't blame the law enforcers, blame yourself, and suck it up.

Tons of people in CA live under worse rules and I know quite a few who just take their lumps and do it again and don't complain because they know that's their choice to get a ticket, pay it, and do it again next time and get caught and repeat. Don't complain because you chose your own course of action and then got what is written in the law as punishment.

As for things being for your safety, well, that is not up to you to decide is it? If it was, then people can also decide they can drive with a 0.50BAC because they do it all the time, they can also cruise for girls at Middle Schools, keep driving that smog generating deathtrap because it runs just fine when it runs, shoot guns out their window without care of who it might hit, etc. Far from just accepting big government, that is not my point, but if you don't like the laws where you are, either move, or write your legislators, or become part of the process yourself and do something about it. But if you just break the law and then bitch about it when you get caught while doing nothing about it otherwise, well, you get no sympathy.
 
There is case precedence now where people have argued a violation of free speech by flashing your headlights and won. Too late to appeal?
Yes, I'd researched that. Was too busy then, would appeal now if recurred.

Yes, too late.

Thanks, tho.
 
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