The Lotus Cars Community banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I purchased Reverie CF canards and am in the process of having them professionally installed (not installed yet) which requires drilling a couple holes (I'm guessing 2 per side) in the side of the front clam, under the head light casing.

What raised my concern is the tone and demeanor my mechanics used in explaining the irreversible effects of this, as if this was a process that could not be undone with ease.


So what should I expect for filling these holes, painting, and making it look like new? Is it generally an expensive procedure? Does the clam need to be removed? I'm worried that I'm biting off more than I should chew here. Any insight is appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,749 Posts
I asked this to a friend who owns a body shop two days ago. I am thinking of adding the APR aero kit and wanted to know how irreversible it is. Basically they need to have access to the back of the fiber glass put a "patch" then fill the hole. Then they need to paint. But can't really just spot paint the holes, it would show too much. So they need to paint a large section and fade it.

He seemed to say it would probably show a little, to a trained eye. :shrug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Yeah - to fill any holes correctly will require the clam to be removed - it will cost a lot more to reverse this than it does to do it. The Elise's fiberglass is different than the Exige (which is hand laid in a mold) The Elise is like SMC - sheet molded compound - in that it is a consistent thickness. Any patch will be obvious from the inside (but no one see's that - so who would care right?) however because of the likely thickness difference of the patch and potentially different resin and mat used - it will need to be blended with a filler.

If it were me, I would rather not have to do this because I have seen instances where this reappears. Sometimes, on older Corvettes, you see shoddy work where a hole was patched and you can see exactly where the hold was because of shrinkage or funky body work that acts differently that the intact, original fiberglass.

That is just the fiberglass - then you have the paint - which is partially subjective but to those who know and understand paint - a blend can usually be picked out. Contaminants in paint, fish eyes, runs, differnt metallic flake - the float of the flake - it all can make a repaint or especially a spot/blend obvious. Often the painter trys to find a body line to blend at - but the Elise front clam is curvy and doesn't easily lend to this. Maybe the front seam by the emblem is a good point but then where? To use the fender crease will make the side look different from the top.

Final summary - I would say if you want these - then put them on and leave them. If you think you may want to go back to original at some time - I would suggest you reconsider adding these. It is not going to be inexpensive to undo and may potentially have long term issues with paintwork and bodywork.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the input. So it entails removing the clam, then the obvious fiberglass work, and then paint.


I like the pieces, but I'm wondering if I could sell the car with them attached? Wondering if it'd be an issue to any potential buyer. I'd likely sell to a dealership.



I'm also wondering how much the reversal might cost. Under $1000?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,584 Posts
Bav. Although it would entail a lot of work as mentioned, I would trust an experienced body shop such as SCC who do amazing fiberglass work.

As for selling it with canards, I'd think you'd lose a lot of interest. Some don't like the look, and most don't need the function.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,983 Posts
paint problems, yes....
but where is it a big problem to get to the underside of the clam, in the area where the holes would be drilled?
the fiberglass 'patches' would not need to be large..~2 inches diameter each?
just a thought..
sam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,832 Posts
Just sell it with the canards on the car and then there is no issue. For all you know you'll thwack it some time during your ownership and have to repaint anyway. I guess my point is the future is untold, so just do what you want with the car and worry about selling it when the time comes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
Body trim tape.

I honestly can't see these things having enough force on them to overcome modern trim tape.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
677 Posts
I had reapir work on my old elise after being hit and a decent bodyshop experienced in fiberglass should be able to a perfect match. I knew where the damage was on my car and after they'd finished even I could not find any paint difference of evidence of clam repair.

So in short yes it can be done (and in some respects it's easier than sheet metal) but it needs to be done by people who know how to do it correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,786 Posts
Body trim tape.

I honestly can't see these things having enough force on them to overcome modern trim tape.
I was wondering the same thing... how much downforce do the canards generate at speed? Are you trying to increase downforce, or is this a purely cosmetic mod (not that there's anything wrong with that)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have the Reverie 5-element diffuser (the bad-ass one :evil:)on and wanted to balance the downforce from back to front. It's mostly cosmetic, but I obviously don't want to stick things on that don't work either. That said, I imagine the downforce generated is not tremendous from the canards OR the diffuser. Just really hate the look of most splitters out there.


If I can tape it on that would be amazing. I just wonder how it would hold up at 130 MPH? I might never go that fast, but I might, and if I do, I'd like to keep my $350 Canards :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,786 Posts
I have the Reverie 5-element diffuser (the bad-ass one :evil:)on and wanted to balance the downforce from back to front. It's mostly cosmetic, but I obviously don't want to stick things on that don't work either. That said, I imagine the downforce generated is not tremendous from the canards OR the diffuser. Just really hate the look of most splitters out there.


If I can tape it on that would be amazing. I just wonder how it would hold up at 130 MPH? I might never go that fast, but I might, and if I do, I'd like to keep my $350 Canards :eek:
It might be possible to estimate the aero downforce (and drag) the canards generate... but even better, if they're from Reverie, they probably already know. Maybe you could ask them for a speed vs. force + drag plot, or just the force numbers at 130 mph (or so). Then you could get some industrial strength double sided tape, use the same area that you'd use to attach the canards, and test to see if the tape is strong enough to withstand that force.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,749 Posts
I also think about taking back the car to stock. That's why I also wonder if I should get APR downforce kit or just buy stuff that can be easily removed.

However, my last two cars (heavily modified turbo Miata and Caterham super7) were both sold pretty much as is. I actually had no problem selling them and didn't have to remove anything.

Would canards and wing scare some buyers? Probably. But you would probably be able to sell it as is. It might just take longer. You just won't get that money spent on parts back.

I am also wondering what to do with all this.

Concerning your canards, you would probably be better off with a splitter. Most people love the look. It's easy to take it off and will not leave permanent scars. It will help the diffuser work better and creates less drag than the canards. :shrug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,297 Posts
I was wondering the same thing... how much downforce do the canards generate at speed? Are you trying to increase downforce, or is this a purely cosmetic mod (not that there's anything wrong with that)?
I kind of figured they were more for managing airflow than actually imparting downforce directly - sort of like the vortex generators on the Evo, which are there to control flow separation and thereby airflow to the wing.

So in short yes it can be done (and in some respects it's easier than sheet metal) but it needs to be done by people who know how to do it correctly.
Yup. Randall Fehr certainly looks like he knows what he's doing:

Randall Fehr Restorations - Classic Lotus Specialist
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I also think about taking back the car to stock. That's why I also wonder if I should get APR downforce kit or just buy stuff that can be easily removed.

However, my last two cars (heavily modified turbo Miata and Caterham super7) were both sold pretty much as is. I actually had no problem selling them and didn't have to remove anything.

Would canards and wing scare some buyers? Probably. But you would probably be able to sell it as is. It might just take longer. You just won't get that money spent on parts back.

I am also wondering what to do with all this.

Concerning your canards, you would probably be better off with a splitter. Most people love the look. It's easy to take it off and will not leave permanent scars. It will help the diffuser work better and creates less drag than the canards. :shrug:
Doesn't the splitter require drilling? I'm sure a dealer would just take the car as is. Private sale is a different story, but as someone mentioned, the canards are a love-it or hate-it thing.


Honestly after the TVS, I'm trying to not dump any more unnecessary money into the Lotus. I've spent maybe $15k into my Lotus thus far and it's just becoming a losing effort :)



It might be possible to estimate the aero downforce (and drag) the canards generate... but even better, if they're from Reverie, they probably already know. Maybe you could ask them for a speed vs. force + drag plot, or just the force numbers at 130 mph (or so). Then you could get some industrial strength double sided tape, use the same area that you'd use to attach the canards, and test to see if the tape is strong enough to withstand that force.

I will ask Sector111 then, thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,144 Posts
I had holes in my elise bumper patched for 500 dollars and there were 3 of them at about 2"x2" large. No one would ever know it was there.

A lot of lotus owners think that an exorbitant repair bill is necessary for quality work, but that's not the case. Find someone who is good at repairing corvettes and you will NEVER ever know they were there.

Removal of the clam is NOT necessary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,221 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I contacted Anthony from Daniele's Auto Body who previously did cars for HRM, and they said it shouldn't be a problem so long as the holes are under the front clam seam.

They also said that anything that directs airflow should be bolted on. Makes sense I guess.


I'm leaning towards just doing it and hoping for the best when it comes time to reverse.


Viper, here I come! :drool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
606 Posts
Why not just press in some plasic fur tree clips in the holes and paint them with a little laser blue touch-up? Instead of spending a bunch of money, plus having to re-apply the starshield, this solution would get you 95% there and all you would have is a couple descrete raised circles on the surface where the mounting holes once were. Go to your nearest NAPA or autoparts store to find the clips in a variety of sizes. Here's a link to what I'm talking about..

http://www.fastex.com.au/plastic_fasteners/images/xmas_clip_bigger.jpg

- Allen.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top