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I am seriously considering canceling my number 8 spot due to the timing of the delivery. I may get the car before winter and if so will not have alot of time to play with her before puting her away for the winter. Or I can wait until maybe LSD comes out, or some new options and new colors ect...

However, this is not my delima. I am prepairing for my dealer to tell me that now that I have ordered the car that my deposite is now non-refundable, which may or may not be the case. If they do in fact state that know that I have told them my options, and they refuse to refund my deposite, that I can legaly be intitled to sell my spot, even though he is heavly against people doing so (just like most of the ppl on this forum). Does this make sense to you guys? Either I get my deposite back, or if they try and keep it I imform the dealer that in this case I have purchased the number 8 slot, and I will be selling my spot to another elise lover.

Am I thinking correctly? This seems like a good defense, especially when the dealer is DEAD set against people doing this sort of thing..

AdamP
 

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I think it's too soon to be skeptical of delivery dates. If you're #8, you're looking at August delivery at the latest, right? That's assuming 2-3 cars per month, which I'm guessing as being the minimum allocation. What dealer are you ordering from?
 

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read the fine print on the back of your p.o.. Whatever is there, is what you and the dealer agreed to. If anything looks unclear, ask a lawyer to do a quick read of it. i believe the dealer can cancel out for just about anything he likes. He may,
however, then not be entitled to your deposit.
 

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Ridgemanron said:
read the fine print on the back of your p.o.. Whatever is there, is what you and the dealer agreed to. If anything looks unclear, ask a lawyer to do a quick read of it. i believe the dealer can cancel out for just about anything he likes. He may,
however, then not be entitled to your deposit.
Whoa wait a second- did you all get purchase orders when you ordered? I did'nt and assumed there would be no other paperwork until the car arrived. TIA.
 

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_JD_ said:
Whoa wait a second- did you all get purchase orders when you ordered? I did'nt and assumed there would be no other paperwork until the car arrived. TIA.
He should have mailed you a copy if it was done over the phone.
No reason not to.
 

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I don't want to press the issue with my dealer but he just replied to my query about my need for a copy of the purchase order with:

"No, the buyers' order I gave you initially is all that's needed until delivery; at this point the manufacturer doesn't know who's getting the car we speced for you. "

Anyone else not get a PO? This kind of gets me PO'ed but up to this point, the dealer has been great and I kind of *ahem* trust him. Should I be concerned about this ya think?
 

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_JD_ said:
Whoa wait a second- did you all get purchase orders when you ordered? I did'nt and assumed there would be no other paperwork until the car arrived. TIA.
I only have the paperwork/receipt for my initial deposit and a receipt for my "finalizing" deposit... I personally am not worried about not being given a PO.
 

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MikeAR303 said:
I only have the paperwork/receipt for my initial deposit and a receipt for my "finalizing" deposit... I personally am not worried about not being given a PO.
tks Mike- I guess I'm just concerned that the car does'nt have my name on it in the eyes of Lotus, but I guess it's really the dealers car once they take delivery of it until I sign all the paperwork anyway. These stories of dealer mark-ups and fuzzy spots in line have me a bit edgy I recon.
 

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The fact that very few (or zero) dealers are doing official purchase orders is bugging me too. Look at this way: After promising a certain price (let's say MSRP), and then collecting $2000-$4000 in non-refundable deposits, what is to stop a salesman from introducing a $5,000 premium, or even a $1,000 "prep" fee, at the time of delivery?

The nice benefit of a proper purhcase order is that it locks down prices and terms. It forces all negotiations for the actual price of the car to be completed beforehand -- before delivery and before the contract becomes binding with the customer's signature.

I would say that there should be a fair compromise in situations that lack proper documentation: If the salesman wants to lock me into a non-refundable deposit because "he ordered my car especially for me," then I want to sign documents that define the final price of the car at delivery. And If the salesman wants to play it so that he can negotaite price at the time of delivery, that's fine too -- he just shouldn't expect that I will agree to a non-refundable deposit structure.
 

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I have never heard of not getting a P.O..
Sounds to me that the dealer does not want you to know what the extent of the agreement between you is. A dealer not looking to hide anyting, like Valenti, gives you a signed P.O. and Valenti has been selling Lotus in this country longer than anyone else.
 

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Maybe it is time for an online survey (I would post it myself, but considering that I am in the 40s, it would be rather presumptuous and premature for me to fact-find at this level):

Title: Purchase Order or Loose Handshake Agreement?

- I have ordered my car, telling my salesman my desired color and options, but I have not signed any paperwork. All I have are deposit receipts, and/or my salesman's signature on a preliminary work order.

- I have ordered my car, telling my salesman my desired color and options, and I have signed some paperwork that makes my deposit non-refundable.

- I have ordered my car, telling my salesman my desired color and options, and I have signed some paperwork that makes my deposit non-refundable, and also defines the exact price I am paying for the car, its options, and dealer fees.
 

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Genjuro said:
Don't sweat it Adam. I honestly think that you'll have your car in May.
May?!?!

Why would a #8 slot at a small dealership get 8 cars in one month, and a month ahead of everybody else?

:confused: :confused: :confused:
 

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Ridgemanron said:
I have never heard of not getting a P.O..
Sounds to me that the dealer does not want you to know what the extent of the agreement between you is. A dealer not looking to hide anyting, like Valenti, gives you a signed P.O. and Valenti has been selling Lotus in this country longer than anyone else.
As JonM3Coupe said: "The fact that very few (or zero) dealers are doing official purchase orders..."

Virtually nobody is getting a formal P.O. A lot of people are starting to get P.O.ed, but that's another matter. :D

If you've never heard of people not getting a P.O. before, it's probably because you weren't listening. Too busy being Valenti's PR hack, maybe?
 

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JonM3Coupe said:
Maybe it is time for an online survey (I would post it myself, but considering that I am in the 40s, it would be rather presumptuous and premature for me to fact-find at this level):

Title: Purchase Order or Loose Handshake Agreement?

- I have ordered my car, telling my salesman my desired color and options, but I have not signed any paperwork. All I have are deposit receipts, and/or my salesman's signature on a preliminary work order.

- I have ordered my car, telling my salesman my desired color and options, and I have signed some paperwork that makes my deposit non-refundable.

- I have ordered my car, telling my salesman my desired color and options, and I have signed some paperwork that makes my deposit non-refundable, and also defines the exact price I am paying for the car, its options, and dealer fees.
At Newport European Motorcars (and, I presume, at Desert European Motorcars), your deposit becomes "an option to purchase". The legal definition of that might be interesting, but my lay interpretation is that it is no longer a "deposit" on the car, but an option that you have purchased. If you choose not to purchase the car, that has no effect on the fact that you previously purchased an option to purchase the car, much like some of the eBay option sellers. I expect this was done to specifically skirt the laws regarding refundability of deposits for cars that were not actually delivered to the "buyer", for any reason.

Of further interest at those dealers is whether the "option to purchase" is a sunk cost, or is applied to the cost of the car. They said it would be applied to the purchase price, but there is nothing on the order form to confirm that. Actually, technically, I read it to say just the opposite.
 

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I would like to add that I am not trying to scare anyone, nor am I trying to imply that all salesmen are bloodsucking scum.

That said...

Given the obvious supply-demand issues of the Elise...

And given the history of dealer mark-ups for cars like E46 M3s and other "affordable cars with exotic performance"...

And given the fact that many of could probably be talked into unimaginable compromises if someone dangled the key to an Elise in front of our face. ("It's right there on the lot, Billy. You can drive away today if you meet my new terms.")...

Then I have to say that, at some point, the other shoe will drop on many of us -- and it will probably happen at delivery time.

If the other shoe doesn't drop, then I think the entire Lotus dealer network should be nominated for a consumer-friendliness award. Of course, I write all of this as a guy who's expecting MSRP. If you've been told all along that you will be asked to pay a significant premium, then I wouldn't be so worried about not receiving paperwork.

zvezdah1: Why so confident? Not trying to pry. Just interested in your thoughts.
 

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If I may be so bold as to answer for zvezdah.

LOA is excellent to deal with. I believe Chris(zvezdah) enjoys an even more intimate relationship with LOA than most of us, and he knows people at Lotus USA.

Im several states away (and know a few people at Lotus too) and I too feel supremely confident in LOA and them taking care of me. They're just that good. :)
 

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OneFastMiata said:
If I may be so bold as to answer for zvezdah.

LOA is excellent to deal with. I believe Chris(zvezdah) enjoys an even more intimate relationship with LOA than most of us, and he knows people at Lotus USA.

Im several states away (and know a few people at Lotus too) and I too feel supremely confident in LOA and them taking care of me. They're just that good. :)
Well, I will concede that there is a lot of be said for gut instinct, so you and Chris probably will indeed sale through the whole process. But I think most people on this board share my experience -- which is that while I haven't been "mistreated" in any way per se, I also haven't been given any reason to feel that I'm in the hands of a dealership that is absolutely committed to serving my best interests. And I really don't begrudge a dealer or salesman for trying to capitalize on supply/demand. All I ask is that the situation be above-board.
 
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