[Joecooool]

Whats going on here?

Hmmmmmm.......

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4746

 

[roadrunner]

Another connection...

These motorcycles are quite unusual - there are a couple of them in the showroom at Scottsdale Lotus.

http://www.lotusofscottsdale.com/2-001.html

Same photos here:

http://go2autosales.com/inventory2/motorcycles/motorcycles-gallery1/motorcycles-gallery1.html

 

[roadrunner]

And some more...

http://go2autosales.com/inventory2/classics/classics.html

And here:

http://www.lotusofscottsdale.com/4-064.html

http://www.lotusofscottsdale.com/4-047.html

EDIT to add:

http://go2autosales.com/lamborghini/lamborghini-gallery-1/lamborghini-gallery-1.html

http://www.lotusofscottsdale.com/4-058.html

 

[Allan Gibbs]

Yes, some of those cars are from Scottsdale Lotus. I especially recognize the Maroon Maserati.

I think I may have an explaination. I did stop by Scottsdale last Saturday (7/24) to look at the Maserati. I also stopped by to see if they had any Elises, especially hidden in the back parking lot. No fed versions just a raced preped S1 and an S1 Exige. At the time, Dan restated that their demos should arrive around August 15.

I then spoke to Dan again last Friday (7/30) regarding the Maserati. He did said that they had bought a federal Elise over MSRP from a wholesaler because they could not wait two more weeks for a demo car. However, they wouldn't allow test drives on the car they had just bought. But it was something customers could look at.

My guess is that they will sell that car over MSRP but don't have it yet, which is probably why it's not an acutal photo on their site. They'll probably sell it after their demo model arrive (about two weeks). I actually, I think they mentioned they were going to sell it over MSRP, since they bought it over MSRP. That's as much as I know.

 

[Paul MD]

WHOLESALER???? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only 'WHOLESALER' around here is Lotus themselves!!! Unless the halfwit dealers have started selling each other their own cars at above MSRP prices...?!!?!??!

:huh:

 

[Allan Gibbs]

Actually, what I think has happened is that some people ( prospectors, dealer owners, salesmen, etc.) got on the list very early on. Now that their cars are here, they're selling this car over MSRP and dealers are getting those cars and adding their cut.

I did get a chance to see Scottsdale's waiting list last Saturday. The first deposit was placed in January 2003. My guess is that after seeing the Elise in the 2003 autoshow, that person became the first on Scottsdale's list. So, I don't think they've inflated their list with friends, sales people, etc. so that they could sell the first cars over MSRP.

Personally, I'm not to worried yet as some other West Coast dealerships haven't gotten their demo cars either. Dan has told me my car #16 should come in around October. Based on what other have said on Elisetalk (#20 in another dealership around December), I don't think Scottsdale is taking customer cars and selling them over to others over MSRP. And personally, if they want to go find and buy and Elise and sell it over MSPR, that's their business - so long as the customers on the waiting list aren't effected.

PS: Sorry for the typos.

 

[thegit]

Actually, what I think has happened is that some people ( prospectors, dealer owners, salesmen, etc.) go on the list very early on. Now that their cars are here, they're selling this car over MSRP and dealers are getting those cars and adding their cut.

:clap: :clap: EXACTLY:clap: :clap:
imo.
This was done by my local VW/Audi ex Porsche dealership with The NuMINI, to lure in their customers, and I expect they'll do the same with a couple of Lizzies.
I find this Ironic, as they, as nondealers, will sell a couple of Elises before some authorised lotus dealerships even see their allotment.

Insider trading...anyone?
m.

 

[JK68LC]

I find it amazing

- that Lotus is ok with this:

"I find this Ironic, as they, as nondealers, will sell a couple of Elises before some authorised lotus dealerships even see their allotment."

Having a high number on the list, I personally am dissapointed in Lotus for letting this happen.

There are money to be made on the early cars here so believe me that dealers will find a way.
They will tell us whatever to make it seem ok.
"open auction or wholesalers".

If Lotus had put in place some measure to eliminate speculation, (right of refusal etc)
the only people that would have complained would be speculators and not the customer like me who sincerely just want the car to keep.

- J

 

[zvezdah1]

J,
Give me a break, what could Lotus have done to prevent speculators from getting cars? HIghly popular cars have always been available quick at premium price. ON the flip side suppose I'd been on the waiting list for x years and for whatever reason decided I didn't want to keep the car after it finally arrived. I take delivery and flip it to whoever pays the most. Look at all the efforts Ferrari went to keep the enzo away from this, how many have you seen for sale? (several) A speculator has just as much right to be on a waiting list somewhere, buy the car and he can do with as he pleases, his money is just as green as mine or anyone elses.

It's not realistic to expect ANY car company to eliminate the speculative market.

Chris

 

[Allan Gibbs]

Re: I find it amazing

- If Lotus had put in place some measure to eliminate speculation, (right of refusal etc) the only people that would have complained would be speculators and not the customer like me who sincerely just want the car to keep.
- J

Interetingly enough, I was talking to someone about contractual obligations for a buyer to keep the car for more than a year before reselling. Btw, did I mention this on Elisetalk before?

He brought up the situation with the Ferrari Enzo, where a prospective buyer had to go through an application process and sign an agreement that they would not sell their cars within a 12 month period. If they did, they would be black listed and could never buy any new Ferrari from the company again. [Fine, I had someone else buy it for me.]

That being said, I'm sure it's worked well if there when there only...200..300 Enzos. But can you imagine how Lotus would monitor and enforce such a policy with 2,500 Elises a year? Heck, they can barely even get their LSS shipments right.

Also, can you imagine how many people would be irrated with having to go through an application process just to get a $40,000 sports cars?

Perhaps, if it came to a point where action needed to be taken (say you found your car had been sold over MSRP, which resulted in a longer wait), the most effective mean may be a harsh letter to the owner of the dealership, with a copy to Lotus N.A., Lotus UK, and the better business bureau. Maybe even a letter one of the automagazines. Chance are, you'd probably get a new car ASAP. That's just my guess though.

 

[wallabyguy]

It's really tough to control sales after the intial delivery. I think Ferrari also tried to only lease the F50 in order to control the market. I think I've seen fewer F50s being resold than Enzos, but frankly I don't pay much attention to Ferraris, I'm a Lotus Guy.

 

[JK68LC]

Ok here we go..

First thing first:
It must be raining where zvezdah1 lives - or he has already made a profit. heheh
Congrats on your car!!!! Sitting in the car with a wireless connection from a laptop, right!!

But seriously:
I understand the complications in keeping track of the ownership. But hey for going through the process, I wouldn't have complained a bit ( I feel a poll coming on )

What I am amazed the most over is that the cars hit dealers at such a different rate. That is something lotus could easily have coordinated better.

- J

BTW where have you seen all these Enzo's for sale??

 

[zvezdah1]

They've been listed in Dupont Registry as well as a couple hi end carsites on line. They appear to be exotic dealers (though don't recall if Ferrari dealer or not). I don't mean to imply dozens on the market, but one dealer ad I saw listed 2 enzos for sale.
Chris

 

[MattG]

Re: Ok here we go..

What I am amazed the most over is that the cars hit dealers at such a different rate. That is something lotus could easily have coordinated better.

Absolutely! It seems it was horribly, horribly managed, and speaks poorly of Lotus. Keep in mind that there are two separate entities to direct your ire at though - Lotus in the UK, and Lotus Cars USA. As I understand it, they are legally separate business entities. I believe the problem originated with Lotus in the UK, for we have pretty good proof that the build order of cars was mixed up, for reasons that aren't apparant. The result of this, is that one dealer I know has received their first two customer cars *before* their demo car. On top of that, those two customer cars are NOT for the first two customers on their list (well, I think one of the two is, but not the other). It seems like Lotus here in the US has been doing everything they can, but you could say their hands are tied, they get whatever cars the UK sends them to distribute.

 

[thegit]

I accept this behaviour in a free market society, sad though it is, because even though this method is widely accepted and profit is the name of the game, we placed orders on a hope, not factual knowledge, that this car would be exported here. Now with this speculating between dealers more than the "flippers", you can't but help thinking your dream was sold to someone who jumped in line....basic psychology.

This is an observation of basically the flip side of the coin of capitalism. (just making an observation here.. not hostile criticism.)
they have their rules, they give us ours, but don't have ethical sensitivity. Yeah, not the real world, although i like to think of the Fed Elise as a dream come true.... once i get my mitts on it.

m

 

[babak]

Speculation will never go away people. In the past it involved cars that few of us car about, i.e. Mini's, PT Cruisers, initial run of the Viper and the likes of Carrera GT. However, it has now hit close to home and we're pissed because we're waiing for our cars while they are floating around on the 'free' market. We're all going to get over this once more cars start filtering in.

 

[Joecooool]

I don't have a problem with speculation on the part of an individual.

What I would object to is a dealership that sells spots in line, then when the first cars some in, flips them to some other part of their company under a different name and tries to get $25K over sticker price while those in line continue to wait for their car thinking they are at the top of the list.

I am not saying that I know this is the case in this instance. All I am saying is that it seems really unusual for the reseller of the Elise in question to list several of the same car(s) as the Lotus dealership with the name of the dealership (intentionally ???)cropped out of the pictures.

 

[Surferjer]

I second both Chris and Joecool's comments. I would not sell my car unless I for some reason lost the ability (physically) to drive. However, I have the right to do so if I choose without apologizing. Getting on the list wayyy early afforded me that luxury.

All that said, how could you SELL IT? My god what a car. If puts a f**king grin on my face each and every time I climb in.

 

[agent.5]

I am not saying that I know this is the case in this instance. All I am saying is that it seems really unusual for the reseller of the Elise in question to list several of the same car(s) as the Lotus dealership with the name of the dealership (intentionally ???)cropped out of the pictures.

I am sure it is done via legal, private auction, as in the same owner has its left brain and right brain bid on a private lot inside his head.

 

[jml1952]

WHOLESALER???? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only 'WHOLESALER' around here is Lotus themselves!!! Unless the halfwit dealers have started selling each other their own cars at above MSRP prices...?!!?!??!

:huh:

Nicely put.

The joys of "capitalism". Nice to know that the Elise "black market" is thriving.