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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I just did my first autox in the Elise! Although any competition event is fun, it was frustrating with the front end pushing big time. At least for my skill level, I had to back off the gas and counter steer.

I have 5-1/2" front LSS wheel with the stock 175 tire and I understand that I can run a Toyo R888 195 front that should make a big difference. Does anyone know if running a 6-1/2" wheel afford much better performance running the same R888 195 front tire or even running the R888 205 front tire?

I have a 2008 Elise SC, track pack, LSD, TC with 3 way Nitrons (not corner balanced or ride ht set up yet).

TIA
 

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Hi Doc, I think the '08 LSS front is 6" wide. '07 is 6.5" wide having the same offset, so you'll probably gain front track width of 6mm(?) each side, that'll surely help reduce understeer. I have no direct experience switching from 6" to 6.5" though.
 

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A few basic rules:
1. Wider rims make tires balloon out less, the more ballooned the sidewalls are, the less rigid the sidewalls are. Wider rims equates to a more direct steering feel.
2. Wider and softer front wheels normally equate to less push in corners. Wider wheels support wider rubber without ballooning the sidewalls.

For me, 7 inch front wheels with 205 width tires seemed to improve things. A tunable front sway bar (such as the bwr bar), allows you to fine tune for the characteristics you believe you want. However, in a very hard turn tires are going to slip. The Lotus engineers felt it was safer to have a push than a spin-out from over-steer. I tend to prefer improved front grip.
 

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Simulatanousy I went front 6.5 OZ rims to 8" TMRs and fro Bilsteins to Ohlin's.
It was night and day (chalk and cheese).

While the TMRs are very cheap, the widest forged rims are worthwhile in term of cost ($/seconds saved), so I can recommend them.

Depending on your course, mastering of your parking brake is probably better $/time, worth some investment in time in mstereing...
 

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I think you have the 6 inch lss which is the recommended size for 195-50-16 Toyo r888 I believe. I would look into alignment, suspension and sway bar settings before changing rims. Keep in mind that if you setup the car well for slow corners like autocross, it could be a handful in fast corners, ie track.

I found under steer with the stock ad07s challenging during autocross. But it is a good opportunity to learn trail braking. Wider rims and tires don't need that as much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Doc, I think the '08 LSS front is 6" wide. '07 is 6.5" wide having the same offset, so you'll probably gain front track width of 6mm(?) each side, that'll surely help reduce understeer. I have no direct experience switching from 6" to 6.5" though.
Awesome 5-1/2" front rims seem way too thin, I'm glad I probably have 6" rims!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A few basic rules:
1. Wider rims make tires balloon out less, the more ballooned the sidewalls are, the less rigid the sidewalls are. Wider rims equates to a more direct steering feel.
2. Wider and softer front wheels normally equate to less push in corners. Wider wheels support wider rubber without ballooning the sidewalls.

For me, 7 inch front wheels with 205 width tires seemed to improve things. A tunable front sway bar (such as the bwr bar), allows you to fine tune for the characteristics you believe you want. However, in a very hard turn tires are going to slip. The Lotus engineers felt it was safer to have a push than a spin-out from over-steer. I tend to prefer improved front grip.
Thanks for that feedback! On your 7" front rims, have you also tried the 195s? If running 205s has a significant enough advantage over my 6" rims running 195s, I'll upgrade to 7" rims.
 

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I have ran 195 tires on the 6.5 front wheels, but they were not high-grip tires. They were Khumo Estca tires, which do not have awesome grip. My 205's are Toyo Proxes R1R Hoosier A6 and Hoosier R6 tires. My 7 inch front wheels are RAC monolites and Team dynamics 1.4 forged wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Simulatanousy I went front 6.5 OZ rims to 8" TMRs and fro Bilsteins to Ohlin's.
It was night and day (chalk and cheese).

While the TMRs are very cheap, the widest forged rims are worthwhile in term of cost ($/seconds saved), so I can recommend them.

Depending on your course, mastering of your parking brake is probably better $/time, worth some investment in time in mstereing...
Really, an 8" front wheel? Seems pretty wide for our little cars. As far as the rear parking brake practice, it's something my son wants to do. Ha! Not in my car. He can do that all he wants in the little Miata I gave him. :up:


I think you have the 6 inch lss which is the recommended size for 195-50-16 Toyo r888 I believe. I would look into alignment, suspension and sway bar settings before changing rims. Keep in mind that if you setup the car well for slow corners like autocross, it could be a handful in fast corners, ie track.

I found under steer with the stock ad07s challenging during autocross. But it is a good opportunity to learn trail braking. Wider rims and tires don't need that as much.
Thanks! Yea, I'm going to run the Toyo 195 R888s on my LSS wheels and set them up somewhere between AutoX and Track and see how that goes.

Wow, it makes sense to have tried to trail brake in my last AutoX with all that front end pushing. I'll keep that in mind for future runs! :clap:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have ran 195 tires on the 6.5 front wheels, but they were not high-grip tires. They were Khumo Estca tires, which do not have awesome grip. My 205's are Toyo Proxes R1R Hoosier A6 and Hoosier R6 tires. My 7 inch front wheels are RAC monolites and Team dynamics 1.4 forged wheels.
Wow, sounds like you have a set of wheels and tires for every occasion! :clap:

This sounds like a slippery slope. :D
 

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Another suggestion, given your location, join gglc autox events in the spring. Very humbling and educational to see people with similar cars going much faster. Also lots of nice people to talk to and catch a ride in the afternoon. Not really that competitive. I know this does not answer your setup question, but i found the events fun and useful so i thought i throw it out there :)
 

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Per the title of 5-1/2 versus 6-1/2".
Was this not also posted in the women's subforum last week?

I thought the consensus was a bit amore feeling the palms, but not a lot unless tracking it.
and also you get more push in the corners, and spongy feel, where you would not with the extra section width.
 

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My car is a 2011 and it came with 6" fronts and 8" rears. The new Lotus cup R also comes with what I think are the same size wheels, since the tires are the same, 175/55.

They must know what they are doing... its Lotus after all. All the other parts on the car are fine tuned for track use, except Advan AD07's. So I am expecting most buyers will change the tires, but not the wheels?

There must be a good reason Lotus makes this combination the default on a true race car?

http://www.lotuscars.com/us/node/51857
 
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