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Does size matter?
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comparing a small roadster with a truck? that's not fair, it should be a sedan at most
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If you ask me, bumper regulations are going in the wrong direction... higher and higher. Did anyone read that C&D article a few months back about the proposed increase in bumper height requirements?
Simply pathetic. Simple physics will tell you that the closer the bumper is to the plane of the axles and drivetrain, the more evenly forces can be dispersed, decreasing chances for serious injury.
Since most cars (excluding rock climbers and semis) have similar axle heights, that should be the required bumper height (approx. 12" O.C. above the ground, more or less?) Am I way off here or do you guys get my point?
Simply pathetic. Simple physics will tell you that the closer the bumper is to the plane of the axles and drivetrain, the more evenly forces can be dispersed, decreasing chances for serious injury.
Since most cars (excluding rock climbers and semis) have similar axle heights, that should be the required bumper height (approx. 12" O.C. above the ground, more or less?) Am I way off here or do you guys get my point?
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Most vehicles nowadays are SUVs; and they seem to get bigger and bigger. And, I think your logic is right, but to accommodate 24" spinning wheels and other monsterized mechanical devices in order to order McDonald's take-outs through drive-through windows, while watching a DVD movie, the axle height is increasing and not decreasing.
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And that Dodge is smaller than mine.Lotus Fury said:
I don't think higher bumpers regulations are for the pedestrians.
Would you rather have broken ankles or a broken pelvis ?
Most car bonnets are designed to be flexible for catching pedestrians.
Well they are over here.
I think if you're a pedestrain and get hit by some as big as that shown in your pic you'd be more likely to go under it
Would you rather have broken ankles or a broken pelvis ?
Most car bonnets are designed to be flexible for catching pedestrians.
Well they are over here.
I think if you're a pedestrain and get hit by some as big as that shown in your pic you'd be more likely to go under it
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Of course, around here I am more worried about hitting a moose than a pedestrian, and I wouldn't want to do it in anything. I've done it once in a K car (with amazingly little damage) and have no desire to do it again.Mark said:I don't think higher bumpers regulations are for the pedestrians.
Would you rather have broken ankles or a broken pelvis ?
Most car bonnets are designed to be flexible for catching pedestrians.
Well they are over here.
I think if you're a pedestrain and get hit by some as big as that shown in your pic you'd be more likely to go under it
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I definitely agree with you, Mark. At any height, a car would impose a serious threat to a pedestrian.
I BELIEVE the intention of bumpers is to create an "ok to crumple up" area of your car that can be easily and cheaply removed and replaced in case of little "bumps" (thus the name).
The problem I'm noticing is that bumpers do nothing of the sort for those of us with smaller cars.
I've had two 5 mph accidents with big SUVs - one in a BMW M Coupe, and one in an S2000 and BOTH TIMES the other car had no visible damage and I had over $2500 due to a demolished hood (their bumper cuts through it like butter even at 2 mph).
The bottom line is that the law is unfair. Those of us who like little cars risk injury, death, and unfair expense due to other people's tanks rolling down the street. What the government SHOULD to is impose a maximum bumper height constraint that's REALISTIC... so that bumpers on some cars don't meet the hoods of other cars... sometimes when on the highway, i drive up to semi trucks just to amuse myself at the fact that their rear bumper almost meets my windsheild. MY WINDSHIELD !!!
The government doesn't care about us, though... they want to keep those big Detroit hogs grunting and sucking up as much Amoco oil as they can, so they'll keep on brainwashing the zombified masses into believing that's what they really want.
Yay America! :::waves flag:::
I BELIEVE the intention of bumpers is to create an "ok to crumple up" area of your car that can be easily and cheaply removed and replaced in case of little "bumps" (thus the name).
The problem I'm noticing is that bumpers do nothing of the sort for those of us with smaller cars.
I've had two 5 mph accidents with big SUVs - one in a BMW M Coupe, and one in an S2000 and BOTH TIMES the other car had no visible damage and I had over $2500 due to a demolished hood (their bumper cuts through it like butter even at 2 mph).
The bottom line is that the law is unfair. Those of us who like little cars risk injury, death, and unfair expense due to other people's tanks rolling down the street. What the government SHOULD to is impose a maximum bumper height constraint that's REALISTIC... so that bumpers on some cars don't meet the hoods of other cars... sometimes when on the highway, i drive up to semi trucks just to amuse myself at the fact that their rear bumper almost meets my windsheild. MY WINDSHIELD !!!
The government doesn't care about us, though... they want to keep those big Detroit hogs grunting and sucking up as much Amoco oil as they can, so they'll keep on brainwashing the zombified masses into believing that's what they really want.
Yay America! :::waves flag:::
A good thing about the Elise being so small, as long as it's a cow you may be able to duck and slide right through its legs, If it's a bull you will have to take it up with him but I'm guessing he's not gonna be happy about itLumn8r said:
What
I'm not the one who titled this thread
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I was right(I think), european regulation to increase the bumper height was for pedestrians survivability
http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/innovation/safety/simul.html
http://www.unece.org/trans/doc/2002/wp29grsp/inf-gr-ps-12e.pdf
http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/innovation/safety/simul.html
http://www.unece.org/trans/doc/2002/wp29grsp/inf-gr-ps-12e.pdf
Those pictures demonstrates how a typical a situation for American Elise owner will be very soon. Especially in Texas with all of our pickup trucks SUVs, rock fearing H2 Hummers (the rocks might scratch the chrome expensive wheels), and monster trucks.
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Means you follow some rules.
Pass with care on the right... or don't pass on the right if possible.
Do not drive in the other vehicles blind spot.
Do not drive directly to the right of the other vehicle. This one worries me a little, if you are in traffic and you are the little yellow Elise and to your driver's side is that big white truck....and you are stuck in traffic. It's a bit vulnerable. If he or she goes to change lanes, they may not use their mirrors and will not see you.
Drive the car like it was a motorcycle. Watch out for cars and stay alert.
Try to know where your "out" is at all times. If that guy comes into my lane, where do I go? If there is no "out"...maybe you should make one by moving. Stay away from packs of cars.
Do not follow to close to larger vehicles. Another car attempting to fill that space may not see you. Besides, rock chips suck.
Try not to allow larger vehicles to follow you too closely...and they will. Smaller means less intimidation and human nature what it is, they can crawl up to your bumper. But they can not stop as quickly as you...physics being what it is. Not an advocate of road rage, just speed up or move over if they want to tailgate. This is not the car to insist on teaching others proper road manners IMO.
Know how to handle your Elise. Accidence avoidance is the key, not more mass and large bumpers. With a light and nimble car, you have 50% of the equation in avoiding accidents. The other 50% is driver ability. And one might quibble with that ratio.
Taking another note from motorcyclists... a louder exhaust can be your friend.
Be careful where you park! Walking is not so painful. I have always wondered about the obsession some people have for circling parking lots for 15 minutes looking for a closer spot. Park a block away and avoid being next to large cars. That truck above can pull out and not see you and turn his wheel as he backs out. SCRAPE. I look for end spots in parking lots. And then hug the non-car side.
Pass with care on the right... or don't pass on the right if possible.
Do not drive in the other vehicles blind spot.
Do not drive directly to the right of the other vehicle. This one worries me a little, if you are in traffic and you are the little yellow Elise and to your driver's side is that big white truck....and you are stuck in traffic. It's a bit vulnerable. If he or she goes to change lanes, they may not use their mirrors and will not see you.
Drive the car like it was a motorcycle. Watch out for cars and stay alert.
Try to know where your "out" is at all times. If that guy comes into my lane, where do I go? If there is no "out"...maybe you should make one by moving. Stay away from packs of cars.
Do not follow to close to larger vehicles. Another car attempting to fill that space may not see you. Besides, rock chips suck.
Try not to allow larger vehicles to follow you too closely...and they will. Smaller means less intimidation and human nature what it is, they can crawl up to your bumper. But they can not stop as quickly as you...physics being what it is. Not an advocate of road rage, just speed up or move over if they want to tailgate. This is not the car to insist on teaching others proper road manners IMO.
Know how to handle your Elise. Accidence avoidance is the key, not more mass and large bumpers. With a light and nimble car, you have 50% of the equation in avoiding accidents. The other 50% is driver ability. And one might quibble with that ratio.
Taking another note from motorcyclists... a louder exhaust can be your friend.
Be careful where you park! Walking is not so painful. I have always wondered about the obsession some people have for circling parking lots for 15 minutes looking for a closer spot. Park a block away and avoid being next to large cars. That truck above can pull out and not see you and turn his wheel as he backs out. SCRAPE. I look for end spots in parking lots. And then hug the non-car side.
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the thing about rock chips!
I HATE THOSE!
everything else you have insurence for so dont worry!
I HATE THOSE!
everything else you have insurence for so dont worry!
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7,610 Posts
I was thinking about the size issue yesterday, while running errands in my father's Durango.
I came up to a Miata along with other "regular" sized car at a stop light. I thought that all cars look small from the SUV/trucks perspective. Yes, the Miata was smaller that the other cars, but not that it really made much of a difference from where I was sitting.
So, 50' inches, 46 inches probably won't seem like much of a difference to a person in an SUV who's already use to looking down at other vehicles.
It's sort of like a person who's 5'5 inches arguing with a person who's 5'6 inches over who's taller. To a person's who's 6'2, that 1 inch isn't really going to make much of a difference.
So, I guess the biggest shock will come from regular car drivers when the roof of the Elise come into their line of site.
BTW, I took some photos of how it would look being behind the Elise from a Volvo with a height of 56 inches. Here's the image:
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And here's the link:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=746
Here's the Elise's specs compared to other vehicles:
1) HEIGHT
Elise: 45.72
MR2: 48.8
Miata: 48.4
S2000: 50.6
Boxster: 50.8
Z06: 47.7
Accord: 57.1
Chevy pickup: 74.2
Escalade: 76.5
2) LENGTH:
Elise: 151.4
MR2: 153
Miata: 155.3
S2000: 162.2
Boxster: 170.1
Z06: 179.7
Accord: 189.5
pickup: 222.1
Escalade: 198.9
3) WIDTH:
Elise: 68.76
MR2: 66.7
Miata: 66
S2000: 68.9
Boxster: 70.1
Z06: 73.6
Accord: 71.5
pickup: 78.5
Escalade: 78.9
I came up to a Miata along with other "regular" sized car at a stop light. I thought that all cars look small from the SUV/trucks perspective. Yes, the Miata was smaller that the other cars, but not that it really made much of a difference from where I was sitting.
So, 50' inches, 46 inches probably won't seem like much of a difference to a person in an SUV who's already use to looking down at other vehicles.
It's sort of like a person who's 5'5 inches arguing with a person who's 5'6 inches over who's taller. To a person's who's 6'2, that 1 inch isn't really going to make much of a difference.
So, I guess the biggest shock will come from regular car drivers when the roof of the Elise come into their line of site.
BTW, I took some photos of how it would look being behind the Elise from a Volvo with a height of 56 inches. Here's the image:
And here's the link:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=746
Here's the Elise's specs compared to other vehicles:
1) HEIGHT
Elise: 45.72
MR2: 48.8
Miata: 48.4
S2000: 50.6
Boxster: 50.8
Z06: 47.7
Accord: 57.1
Chevy pickup: 74.2
Escalade: 76.5
2) LENGTH:
Elise: 151.4
MR2: 153
Miata: 155.3
S2000: 162.2
Boxster: 170.1
Z06: 179.7
Accord: 189.5
pickup: 222.1
Escalade: 198.9
3) WIDTH:
Elise: 68.76
MR2: 66.7
Miata: 66
S2000: 68.9
Boxster: 70.1
Z06: 73.6
Accord: 71.5
pickup: 78.5
Escalade: 78.9
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thanks, that was very informative and assuring
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