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Discussion Starter #1
OKAY guys, so I was at Barned and Noble tonight going through the magazine section and what did I happen to see? It was a Sport Compact Car magazine with a test of the elise it it. I know I know, that this magazine is for children, but you shoudl pick it up. If you can agree to buy a magazine in which the COVER STORY is how to spray paint a SUBARU Sti black - no kidding - it is worht your time. They did a dyno test of the Elise and compared it to the Celica. Admittidely, they were running the 91 octane gas, which is crap, but it look as though there is not a lot of differnece between these two engines.
The final numbers:

Elise
166 wheel hp
120 lb-ft

Celica
162 wheel hp
119 lb-ft

There is a little more mid range on the Elise, and there is about 5 hp differnece from about 7500-8000, but that is it. The graphs follow each other almost exactly.

For the life of me I don't know why it takes this magazine to be the first to report dyno numbers, especially since there are companies with products "under development". Also, this company is based out of California, so that means that all test will be conducted with 91 octane gas. It is impossible to tell if the ECU is pulling timing, and to be honest I doubt that 93 octane would make all that much differnece on a NA car anyway, but who knows. I thought this might be useful information for all of you. Again, I will reiterate that I don't know why it takes a magazine that SPRAY PAINTS A CAR AS THEIR HOW-TO TECH TIP to bring us this information. The only thing I can say about the articles is BBBWWWWAAAAHHHHHAAAAAA HHHHAAAAA HHHHHAAAA:D :D :D
 

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Discussion Starter #2
oh BTW, the cam switch over is a little higher than on the celica, and it looks as though it gives about 12-13 lb-ft extra punch right at the switch, and about 20 hp. FYI
 

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If I recall correctly, those numbers jive with what Lotus has been saying all along - a few more HP on top and a bit more (much needed) midrange. I'm guessing this is mainly due to higher redline and early cam switch, respectively.

It seems to me that there is not a lot more this engine can due with tuning alone.

These numbers sound reasonable albeit a bit discouraging for the tuning crowd - of which, I am not a part.

it is a bit weird that SCC is the first magazine to post a dyno curve. hmmm..

Thanks for posting... try to find your way to a scanner. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Actually the Celica cam switch over is at 6000, and it looks like the Elise is at 6200. I wish the engine would have been laid out untill 8500, but no such luck. It looks like the biggest gaisn with the Lotus ECU is from 4500 to 5000 RPM, and the gain is about 10-12. Besides the bump from 4500 to 5000 and from 7500 to 8000, it is almost identical. If only there was a way to get another 20-30 hp out of it. Darn it. Actually I owuld be happy with 15, but 50 would be even better.
 

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I know an editor at SCC, and I can testify that SCC is a very serious, hardcore tuning mag that despises rice, really knows its tech stuff, is staffed with awesome drivers, and just so happens to work for a publishing company that makes its money off the "youth market." It is a horribly confused magazine in the big scheme of magazine positioning, but the editors are devoted to rallying/road racing, and empirical testing. My SCC contact also told me that the Elise is essentially perfect (he had access to a LSS one after the press launch). His car control skills are superb; I know he drove it at 11/10ths.

edit: the core editors have their heads in the right place, but i will concede that the magazine makes peculiar story choice decisions. If you knew the history of SCC and its parent company, it would all make sense.
 

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The Elise Hp is reported in Euro bhp. For the US the engine is rated at 187 HP. The Dyno results are pretty close to the expected 7HP difference. I'm surprised that the CAM switch over on the celica was 6000. Everything I have read on newcelica.org says it is 6300rpms????
 

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BTW, there is a tuner on newcelica that has posted dyno graphs of a NA 2ZZ-GE with a CAI, exhaust and PowerPC ECU that achieved 230HP on pump 93 octane. Maybe it is possible.
 

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SCC has always lead all the other magazines in publishing real numbers, not estimates or theoretical guesses at hp and torque. After Grassroots Motorsports, I would rate SCC second for delivering hands-on horsepower mods and real performance insight. Like JonM3 mentioned, the "youth market" oriented articles confuse the purpose of the magazine. However, having met a couple of the editors myself, when I read the "ricer" style articles, the sarcasm and poking of fun is obvious. I get a good laugh out of the silly articles and a good read out of the serious ones.

John
 

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BTW, there is a tuner on newcelica that has posted dyno graphs of a NA 2ZZ-GE with a CAI, exhaust and PowerPC ECU that achieved 230HP on pump 93 octane. Maybe it is possible.
Maybe but very unlikely. I don't put to much faith in dyno results - to many out there who give you what you want esp. if they're trying to sell you a go faster product. Useful as a reference tool for tuning and bragging rights...
 

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shay2nak
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Eyelise said:
BTW, there is a tuner on newcelica that has posted dyno graphs of a NA 2ZZ-GE with a CAI, exhaust and PowerPC ECU that achieved 230HP on pump 93 octane. Maybe it is possible.
if it's true. I'd do it in a second and not touch the car anymore. I think 230 would be just fine.
 

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I'll take SCC over Car & Driver and Road & Track type magazines any day - at least they talk about sports cars all the time instead of SUVs and other boring cars.
 

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sport compact car

The folks at SSC are far more tech orientated than what the casaul reader might think. These guys are true enthusiast who not only can drive but also can do the mods to max out a cars potential. I have personaly talked to two of the senior editors about the elise and boy do they love the car. Bottom line the elise is a driver's car and the guys at SSC are Drivers.
 

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shay2nak, that 1st graph is a Honda motor, and I've seen many more like it making over 220 hp naturally aspirated to the wheels....of a Honda. This is one of the reasons I think the Elise would have been an even more exciting car if it had a B18 in it..........Are there any tuners out there making engine internals for the 2zz yet?
 

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Yes there are. I've looked at a stroker kit that bumps the displacement up to 2L and put out 230HP. Monkeywrench.com or something like that. You can find it if you do a search on Celica.org
 

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shay2nak
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Eyelise said:
Yes there are. I've looked at a stroker kit that bumps the displacement up to 2L and put out 230HP. Monkeywrench.com or something like that. You can find it if you do a search on Celica.org
http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com

i couldn't find the 2L engine. I've seen it before, but I can't find it anymore. :confused:
 
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