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Went to check out the demo... and even though the dealer kept telling me it drives like a go kart, it will fail if it is priced any higher than $39K + tax/options.... It is NIGHT AND DAY to the comfort level of an Esprit, and eventhough the 10 min test drive was great, it was at the same level of "fun" as driving my Esprit. The dealership said the 2006 MSRP will be around $49K and I told him that this is turning into the Lotus Elan show all over again....

This is funny... I asked the salesman if he'd pay $49K for it and he said no... he said it's not enough car for him but that the enthusiasts will pay just about anything for them....

This is becoming sad...

Any thoughts on this....


I think part of why it's worth only $39K is that they barely used any material to build the car. If it was any smaller, it would fit in my glass cabinets for my car models... damn that car is small... I've sat in them before (Auto Show) but damn...... it seemed even smaller next to every other car.... wow...
 

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Esprit said:
Went to check out the demo... and even though the dealer kept telling me it drives like a go kart, it will fail if it is priced any higher than $39K + tax/options.... It is NIGHT AND DAY to the comfort level of an Esprit, and eventhough the 10 min test drive was great, it was at the same level of "fun" as driving my Esprit. The dealership said the 2006 MSRP will be around $49K and I told him that this is turning into the Lotus Elan show all over again....

This is funny... I asked the salesman if he'd pay $49K for it and he said no... he said it's not enough car for him but that the enthusiasts will pay just about anything for them....

This is becoming sad...

Any thoughts on this....


I think part of why it's worth only $39K is that they barely used any material to build the car. If it was any smaller, it would fit in my glass cabinets for my car models... damn that car is small... I've sat in them before (Auto Show) but damn...... it seemed even smaller next to every other car.... wow...
That's what we call an "opinion".
 

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MSRP doesn't really mean all that much. It's just an arbitrary reference.

When Lotus raises the MSRP, it's just a green-light for dealers to renegotiate existing deals for more profit without feeling bad about it.

When Lotus raises Dealer Invoice cost, well, that's more far-reaching. I think this is what most people are talking about.

I will be one of about 2000 people that will feel very sad and resentful if this happens during the 2005 model year, while only a handful have taken delivery. I really hope it doesn't come to that.
 

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Gran Tourismo!

Esprit said:


I think part of why it's worth only $39K is that they barely used any material to build the car. If it was any smaller, it would fit in my glass cabinets for my car models...

Yeah, and a playstation 2 video game CD itself isnt worth $60,prolly a few pennies ...but the content within, the hours of game design that make it the most fun, are.


Im not sure if this analogy makes sense but I've been up for 48 hours and I'm loopy. :D So if it doesn't then I dont claim it as mine.
 

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Re: Gran Tourismo!

OneFastMiata said:
Yeah, and a playstation 2 video game CD itself isnt worth $60,prolly a few pennies ...but the content within, the hours of game design that make it the most fun, are.


Im not sure if this analogy makes sense but I've been up for 48 hours and I'm loopy. :D So if it doesn't then I dont claim it as mine.
What game have you been playing then?

--
And is a diamond worth as much as people pay for it? How about of LV handbag, or pretty much anything in Saks?
 

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I think he does get it, and it's not a troll thread, though I expect it will continue to generate some heated responses.


It is NIGHT AND DAY to the comfort level of an Esprit
Of course it is. And how much is the Esprit? And how much horsepower to move it? This is a different car than the Esprit in various ways. But if your point is that the comfort or luxury level in this car does not reflect what one might expect in a $50k car.... I agree with you.

And I think you raise some good points. I love this car. But Lotus needs to be realistic and not screw up majorly.

Listen please.... I want Lotus to be successful. We all should want this. They have a history of not always doing the right thing. In owning and driving this car now for a very limited time, but not very limited miles.... I think Lotus was spot on with the pricing. Could it bumped a little? Sure. A lot more like $10k? They will quickly find a very limited market for people that want a spartan car, with a 190hp 4 cylinder engine...and that costs over $50k out the door.

The car is not about luxury and comfort. We all know that. But people spending a lot more money will have expectations about the AC working, the roof not leaking, the cabin freer of squeaks, and the speaker covers not popping off. Those who "get it" and are willing to spend a lot more, is a very small market.

Keep the price low. Add options that can create more revenue. Look into selling more swag, driving schools, arrive and drive programs, upgrades, more options. But keep the car at a low entry price. And the demand will stay up there.
 

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I'm sorry...If the base price is raised to that someone can have my car....So my loaded hardtop LSS could be around $60,000...No way....I won't buy it...I'd rather spend my money on a new vette, M3, Porshe....ect
 

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PhillyPhreak said:
I'm sorry...If the base price is raised to that someone can have my car....So my loaded hardtop LSS could be around $60,000...No way....I won't buy it...I'd rather spend my money on a new vette, M3, Porshe....ect
For a little bit more money, you can get a Ferrari Dino 246GTS, a car that virtually has no depreciation.
 

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I believe Randy's comments are right on for the majority of those individuals that are or will be purchasing an Elise. It is an "entry level" sports car that does everything well that it was designed to do. Lotus did much research on the American market and came away recognizing the appropriate price point for this car. Many people are buying this as a third "weekender" car. Lotus executives themselves said as much at the LA autoshow. If the base price is significantly increased, it places this car in a class that it won't be able to compete in successfully longterm. Basically, increasing the price may result in shortterm profit gains at the expense of long term market share. Just my $.02.
 

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Esprit said:

I think part of why it's worth only $39K is that they barely used any material to build the car. If it was any smaller, it would fit in my glass cabinets for my car models... damn that car is small... I've sat in them before (Auto Show) but damn...... it seemed even smaller next to every other car.... wow...
I really don't understand the relevance of this post. Do you honestly perceive a car's value for money by how much car you're getting for your dollar? Pretty shallow and uninformed attitude. You are paying for their expertise and inovation, the R&D, the thousands of hours of testing and of course the badge. You're also paying as much as Lotus thinks the market can bear, just like any other manufacturer.
 

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Right now, with $2.5k "market premium", touring pkg, and normal fees, the car is already costing more than I can reasonably justify for a fun "3rd car". I'm justifying it with emotion and lust, but can only stretch that so far. It's not replacing a track car, or sitting nestled between Labos and Porches, it's just a car I really want to drive.

I think I'm also paying for some parts of the car that have little value.. like the expensive shipping from England, or the costs that come from having such poor and inefficient distribution, "the badge", the lush tropical plants and marble floors of the elite showrooms, the small-build manufacturing costs and unusual tooling.. these aren't necessarily costs that result in a better car.

It's already $50k out the door. I could get a brand new Miata, slather it in performance upgrades, and pad my ass with $20,000 in folded cash.

Sorry Lotus. Any bump in price, and I'll just kick back, tune out for a while, and wait a couple years for the market to settle down or the value to become more clear.
 

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I really like the way the car handled compared to some of the bigger "muscle" cars and it's exactly what I'm looking for. I really can't compare it to a Porsche 911 or some of the other heavy "sports cars". As far as pricing, it's all about the market. I will agree there are fewer buyers at $50,000, but how many is the real question. If Lotus can promote the car on the track and get recognition in "gentlemen" racing groups, it may be able to demand the $50,000 pop. Look at these kids that put $50,000+ in hopped up "urban Honda runabouts" and make decent performers out of them. Lotus has engineered a complete car from the ground up that handles great (not good, but great). It's not a luxury car and it's not an SUV. If you are comparing it to these vehicles, you probably shouldn't consider the Elise, I'm not even sure you will be happy with an Elise. The Elise is a sports car and it's not for everyone. It's not a "grocery getter" and it's not a great daily commuter (many may use it for this, but a Honda civic is just as good for this purpose and a lot cheaper). So yes, people shopping for a car to commute in and get groceries probably wouldn't pay $50,000 for the Elise. But you've got to ask yourself, outside of the looks, why are they buying an Elise in the first place?

Now if you are looking for a great little race car that is forgiving, fast and a great time on the track, how much would you pay for that? Well you can start by pricing out some of these cars that are customized for the track (granted the Elise isn't truly 100% track ready on delivery - but its close).

My guess is that the "true" market for the Elise would pay $50,000 for the car. But the larger market that the Elise could potentially appeal to would not. If they want to hit both markets, they should produce a car for each and try to maintain the great looks for the "daily driver" class while adding some creature comforts. The "weekend racer" class could get a little rougher around the edges and drop some of beauty items in lieu of a race focused vehicle. All in all, I’m really happy with the car as it is now.
 

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From an objective standpoint, I agree with Esprit. Those who really love the car, will pay a higher price. Who don't really love the car will choose something else, which is why there is a broad spectrum of cars from Corvettes, to Porsches to BMW/AMGs.

Those who need (ie: serious track car) or really want the spartaness and less is more philosophy, will really appreciate it. Those who want comfort, luxury, prestige, with their performance will choose something else.

Incidentally, a few weeks ago, I was consider a whole bunch of sports cars from a Boxster, 911, Viper, or used Maserati. What made me stick with the Elise was the price. After today's test drive, it's a no brainer. I want the Elise.

But would I pay $65K for an Elise (as it is now)? No. It's too much money for what I'd use the car for (fun/daily driver). Now if I were a weekend track junkie and needed a dedicated track car, that would be a different story.

Make no mistake, in terms of road feel and visceral sensations, the Elise is all it's supposed to be. In terms of spartaness and space, it's what everyone says it is. But this values is different for every person. Every person has a point were they say, "it's not enough for the money." But that's why it's a market economy.
 

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Another point that needs to be made is......THIS IS NOT A NEW CAR. Sure threre are differences between teh 111s and 111R, but the chassis and body have beena round for years. There is no need to increase price. The only reasons are currency fluctuations, and price gouging. Are there other things at work here? Sure there are. I agree that the dealers could make more money on the cars by charging more - at this point in time. Randy has it right though, will you pay 50,000 for a car taht is using a Celica motor?? I mean the Celica costs 20,000. So what you are really buying is the light weight and the handeling. These things are no inconsequential, however, the commonality between the Celica and the existing S2 are enormous. Also, there is no VAT here in the states, so the UK price is almost irrelevent. 50K for the Elise is robbery. You could buy a new C6, and possobly a 500+ hp Z06 for the same price. I promise that the new Z06 will outrun the Elise. 3000 LBS and 500 hp vs. 1950 lbs and 187 hp. Sorry, but as much as I love the Elise, this is a valid point.

One last thing, the purcahsing experience has been dreadful. The dealers have for the most part done a great job, but Lotus has been behind and behind and behind with little to no customer service. It has been as I have said many times before - the worst purchasing experience I have ever had bar none. I am lucky to get one of the first cars, however, the delays affect everyone equally, and the new dealerships popping up, combined with the ridiculuous notion of "EXTRA CARS" just pi$$e$ me off - for everyone involved.

As a customer base we all deserve better treatment than we have received, and if after all of our patience, they decide to raise the price, I say screw 'em!!
 

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Reddirt14 said:
It's not a "grocery getter"
Sure it is, don't disqualify it just because it takes three or four trips to the grocery store. That just means I get to drive it more. Just don't put the ice cream in the trunk.rotfl
 

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Mean TT said:
The dealers have for the most part done a great job, but Lotus has been behind and behind and behind with little to no customer service. It has been as I have said many times before - the worst purchasing experience I have ever had bar none. I am lucky to get one of the first cars, however, the delays affect everyone equally, and the new dealerships popping up, combined with the ridiculuous notion of "EXTRA CARS" just pi$$e$ me off - for everyone involved.

mean TT, don't you think that the EXTRA CARS are the result of dealers ordering cars for themselves??? I have a hard time believing that Lotus, which by all rights already sold out their allotment of cars for the US, would build cars to reward dealers for whatever when they can't even keep up with customer demand. Dealer greed is what I smell and it stinks...
 
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