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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking for actual oil temps from someone who has installed a temp gauge and removed the front oil coolers.

I've poured over lots of the threads and mostly find "it should be fine stock" or "ok, if you don't track the car hard". I've removed my oil cooler ( NA stock Elise) and have now decided to run track days in the car. I know they should be there for track days, but what temps will it likely hit without them. I'm installing a Gpan this winter and can put something back in if it's mandatory.

If you have data please post it.
 

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? There must be one person with a temp gauge and no oil cooler on the board!
are you just curious for comparison/data sake or do you plan on running a coolerless setup?
 

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I bet you will be fine. I am curently running with one cooler taped over (passenger side) and still have yet to see the oil temp get over 210'. Even after a canyon run... Current temps are in the 70s and i have a larger rad which may be helping. I would love to see temps closer to 250 when the car is working hard.

Aj
 

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A canyon run doesn't remotely compare to hot laps at a track my friend esp repetitive laps!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
are you just curious for comparison/data sake or do you plan on running a coolerless setup?
If some data supports that it's ok running without a cooler i'm not going to mess with a rear mounted unit. I'm concerned about a 20 minute HPDE session now.

FYI: I have already removed the front cooler and all the lines. I'm not running any engine mods or forced induction.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm doing some maintenance on the car this winter and installing a Gpan3. While I'm in there I can install a temp gauge and wait until April (first track day, though still cool) to see what kind track temps I am seeing on an HPDE session. I would rather just do it all this winter at the same time if people are really seeing high temps on a hard session.
 

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If you are going to track it, I would DEFINETELY install an oil cooler back in. BOE has a very nice rear cooler kit. But pushing it on the track without a cooler is just asking for trouble!
 

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re: You need an oil cooler

Oil operates best between 100C and 120C. At 150C the combustion by-products start causing significant chemical reactions that start to break-down the oil (kind of catalized oxidation). As the temperature rises from 150C both the viscosity and the oil itself start to deteriorate quickly. At some point the oil film strength will no longer support the crank bearings and they will fail i.e. your engine blows up. Above numbers are more representative of good synthetic oil. for regular oil all of this happens much faster at ower temperatures.

Oil temperature is not so dependent on mods. Oil picks up heat from its surroundings i.e. comes up to engine (water) temperature quickly. (Here power adders that generate more heat will have marginal effect on oil temps). Most of the temperature rise comes from internal friction. Hence, high-revving low-clearance 4-cylinder motors heat up oil more then slow-spinning American V8's.

On the track, you should be running the car between 6500 and redline. This will heat up the oil very quickly, especially since the motor does not hold all that much (not like dry sump). Heat will go into the oil and it has no place to escape (you cannot get theoil colder than the oil pan temperature.)

On the street or canyon running there is enough time for oil to cool down to engine temperature in the pan between sprints... maybe...

Once the oil starts approaching its critical temperature the wear increases rapidly and complete break-down happens very fast. Oil viscosity vs. temperature is plotted on a log*log paper (the slope is VI). This means it is a double exponential onset i.e. very quick once it starts.

The only way to run on the track is maybe run 5 mins hot and 5 to 7 mins slow... maybe.

Run good synthetic for more protection i.e. Redline (commercial stuff is not what is used in jet engines it is a cheaper base-stock for cars).

None of the above will provide you with protection.

How much $$ did you spend for track time? to enjoy only half of it? at most? What ois the cost of increased wear on the motor? or possibility to blow it up? vs. cost of an oil cooler?

If you want to save $$. Buy a used cooler on e-bay. Make sure it is NOT from a blown motor (can never get all the junk out before it goes through your motor and blow it too!). Plumb and instal lit. The heat in the oil needs to escape somewhere and the oil pan in a Lotus is all covered up (yeah.. there are small NACA ducts on the bottom, but not enough). It is very little heat but it needs to go or the temperature will continue to rise.

Anton

If some data supports that it's ok running without a cooler i'm not going to mess with a rear mounted unit. I'm concerned about a 20 minute HPDE session now.

FYI: I have already removed the front cooler and all the lines. I'm not running any engine mods or forced induction.
 

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yup - one of these...BOE installed.
 

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Oil operates best between 100C and 120C. At 150C the combustion by-products start causing significant chemical reactions that start to break-down the oil (kind of catalized oxidation). As the temperature rises from 150C both the viscosity and the oil itself start to deteriorate quickly. At some point the oil film strength will no longer support the crank bearings and they will fail i.e. your engine blows up. Above numbers are more representative of good synthetic oil. for regular oil all of this happens much faster at ower temperatures.

Oil temperature is not so dependent on mods. Oil picks up heat from its surroundings i.e. comes up to engine (water) temperature quickly. (Here power adders that generate more heat will have marginal effect on oil temps). Most of the temperature rise comes from internal friction. Hence, high-revving low-clearance 4-cylinder motors heat up oil more then slow-spinning American V8's.

On the track, you should be running the car between 6500 and redline. This will heat up the oil very quickly, especially since the motor does not hold all that much (not like dry sump). Heat will go into the oil and it has no place to escape (you cannot get theoil colder than the oil pan temperature.)

On the street or canyon running there is enough time for oil to cool down to engine temperature in the pan between sprints... maybe...

Once the oil starts approaching its critical temperature the wear increases rapidly and complete break-down happens very fast. Oil viscosity vs. temperature is plotted on a log*log paper (the slope is VI). This means it is a double exponential onset i.e. very quick once it starts.

The only way to run on the track is maybe run 5 mins hot and 5 to 7 mins slow... maybe.

Run good synthetic for more protection i.e. Redline (commercial stuff is not what is used in jet engines it is a cheaper base-stock for cars).

None of the above will provide you with protection.

How much $$ did you spend for track time? to enjoy only half of it? at most? What ois the cost of increased wear on the motor? or possibility to blow it up? vs. cost of an oil cooler?

If you want to save $$. Buy a used cooler on e-bay. Make sure it is NOT from a blown motor (can never get all the junk out before it goes through your motor and blow it too!). Plumb and instal lit. The heat in the oil needs to escape somewhere and the oil pan in a Lotus is all covered up (yeah.. there are small NACA ducts on the bottom, but not enough). It is very little heat but it needs to go or the temperature will continue to rise.

Anton
I would talk to Allen at VSA.
I was hellbent on getting a car with twin oil coolers, until I spoke to him?
A couple of owners I had spoken to advised I purchase a twin oil cooler car.
Allen had hard #'s to back up his findings. Damage also occurs when oil temps are too low.
Apparently, many owners that track their cars out in California tape up and block off the passenger side cooler so the oil gets up to optimum temps. I've been tracking mine for 2 years, including a couple of 100 degree days. Never a problem.
Allen and Stephan are very, very knowledgeable and have a massive amount of experience with our cars.

http://www.vsamotorsports.com



Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I would talk to Allen at VSA.
I was hellbent on getting a car with twin oil coolers, until I spoke to him?
A couple of owners I had spoken to advised I purchase a twin oil cooler car.
Allen had hard #'s to back up his findings. Damage also occurs when oil temps are too low.
Apparently, many owners that track their cars out in California tape up and block off the passenger side cooler so the oil gets up to optimum temps. I've been tracking mine for 2 years, including a couple of 100 degree days. Never a problem.
Allen and Stephan are very, very knowledgeable and have a massive amount of experience with our cars.

VSA Motorsports | Lotus Service and Prep



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I assume you are still running one OEM cooler up front though?

I reached out to BOE about a rear mount kit, but have not heard anything back yet. That was a few weeks ago.
 

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I assume you are still running one OEM cooler up front though?

I reached out to BOE about a rear mount kit, but have not heard anything back yet. That was a few weeks ago.
Yes, one stock up front. I would definitely get a call in to Allen at VSA. Visit the site I posted and you'll see where they are coming from?
BTW, my car is a NA 05, so I'm sure things change when your using a Rev 400. I'm sure Phil can help you out with that one.

Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
April 2014 update:

I installed a Auto Meter gauge in the oil pan last week.

I am running a Gpan3, Pro-Rad, and NO oil cooling system.

I'll post samples.

1: 60 degree day. Mixed city and back road driving. Temps varied from 205 f to 212 f.
 

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Well....WITH both coolers I'm seeing temps of 145-150 just totting around town NOT pushing it. Just for your reference and I'm running the SPA gauges at the sandwich plate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well....WITH both coolers I'm seeing temps of 145-150 just totting around town NOT pushing it. Just for your reference and I'm running the SPA gauges at the sandwich plate.
Isn't that on the cold side of things? I thought it should be around 220 F when operating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Oil operates best between 100C and 120C. At 150C the combustion by-products start causing significant chemical reactions that start to break-down the oil (kind of catalized oxidation). As the temperature rises from 150C both the viscosity and the oil itself start to deteriorate quickly. At some point the oil film strength will no longer support the crank bearings and they will fail i.e. your engine blows up. Above numbers are more representative of good synthetic oil. for regular oil all of this happens much faster at ower temperatures.

Oil temperature is not so dependent on mods. Oil picks up heat from its surroundings i.e. comes up to engine (water) temperature quickly. (Here power adders that generate more heat will have marginal effect on oil temps). Most of the temperature rise comes from internal friction. Hence, high-revving low-clearance 4-cylinder motors heat up oil more then slow-spinning American V8's.

On the track, you should be running the car between 6500 and redline. This will heat up the oil very quickly, especially since the motor does not hold all that much (not like dry sump). Heat will go into the oil and it has no place to escape (you cannot get theoil colder than the oil pan temperature.)

On the street or canyon running there is enough time for oil to cool down to engine temperature in the pan between sprints... maybe...

Once the oil starts approaching its critical temperature the wear increases rapidly and complete break-down happens very fast. Oil viscosity vs. temperature is plotted on a log*log paper (the slope is VI). This means it is a double exponential onset i.e. very quick once it starts.

The only way to run on the track is maybe run 5 mins hot and 5 to 7 mins slow... maybe.

Run good synthetic for more protection i.e. Redline (commercial stuff is not what is used in jet engines it is a cheaper base-stock for cars).

None of the above will provide you with protection.

How much $$ did you spend for track time? to enjoy only half of it? at most? What ois the cost of increased wear on the motor? or possibility to blow it up? vs. cost of an oil cooler?

If you want to save $$. Buy a used cooler on e-bay. Make sure it is NOT from a blown motor (can never get all the junk out before it goes through your motor and blow it too!). Plumb and instal lit. The heat in the oil needs to escape somewhere and the oil pan in a Lotus is all covered up (yeah.. there are small NACA ducts on the bottom, but not enough). It is very little heat but it needs to go or the temperature will continue to rise.

Anton

Can anyway concur with these figures Anton posted? I'm running Mobile One 5w-40 truck oil and want to establish my max oil temp prior to hitting the track next month.

Also, if you post temps please clarify F or C

So far I've got:

Ideal operating temp: 212-230 f ( 100-120c)
Potential failure temp: 302 f (150c)

Any thoughts on a responsible redline for this engine?

I'm guessing about 265 f (130c)
 

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Isn't that on the cold side of things? I thought it should be around 220 F when operating.


Yes that is AFTER the cooler. Was just giving you a reference because a precooler would be useless info since we would have the the same precooler temp. But you can compared post and pre temp to see what the difference is.
 
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