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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry if I missed a thread on this.

The new Elise S uses the Magnusson sc, and produces more torque than the previous SC using the MP62. Is that due to the sc itself, or is there a different engine in the Elise S? There was much discussion about the last of the 2ZZ's being produced, but if there is a different engine type now, I missed it.

If they're still using whatever supply they had left, then could the newer sc be fitted to older models? Lack of torque is certainly a recurring theme for the Elise.
 

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Incorrect. The current Elise S utilizes the 2ZR-FE; this engine has a longer stroke than the 2ZZ-GE, which contributes to the increased amount of torque.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks. I was wondering if the new sc setup could be fitted to the older engine, but it sounds like it's a bit more complicated (my car is still under warranty, and that's why).
 

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new engine ?

Incorrect. The current Elise S utilizes the 2ZR-FE; this engine has a longer stroke than the 2ZZ-GE, which contributes to the increased amount of torque.
Question-- if I have a 05 na elise & just had a new engine installed from lotus, out of crate long block from england [lotus] this month is this a 2ZZ-GE or 2ZR-FE----is the 2ZR-FE only for stock SC elise
 

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I have been thinking of this idea for months. I never hear of anybody putting in a stroker crank in thier 2zz. I wonder if it is the same block with a longer stroke or was the block modified? Does anybody know the stroke specs on the new engine? Could someone put this crank in the standard 2zz without too much machine work? Or does anybody know of an aftermarket supplier to get a stroker crank other than the ones for the newer units?
 

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The engine in stock trim does not excite me much. Specifications from Wikipedia:

2ZR-FE

The Toyota 2ZR-FE is a DOHC, 16-valve, 1.8 L (1797 cc) engine also equipped with Dual VVT-i. This new engine is now replacing the 1ZZ-FE engine in most applications. Output for this engine is rated at 132–134 hp (98–100 kW) at 6000 rpm and 128 lb·ft (174 N·m) of torque at 4400 rpm for the Corolla, Matrix, and Vibe and 128 hp and 126 lb ft of torque in the Scion xD.
Specifications:
Engine Type : In-Line 4-cylinder DOHC 16-valve
Bore x Stroke = 80.5 x 88.3 mm
Compression Ratio : 10.0:1
Weight : 97 kg (without fuel)
Applications:
Toyota Allion (ZRT260/265) 2007-2009
Toyota Premio (ZRT260/265) 2007-2009
Toyota Corolla (ZRE142/152)
Toyota Auris (ZRE152/154)
Toyota Yaris (ZSP90) (Europe only)
Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe (ZRE142) (North America only)
Scion xD (ZSP110)
 

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engine ?

I read this also & a few other toyota eng. links - the info seemed to suggest in 2011 elise sc the 2ZR-FE eng was used because of discontinuation of 2ZZ-GE in later 2010 -- so am slightly confused - so - in 2011 - is ? - 2ZZ in na elise & 2ZR in elise sc or all elise's then just add a sc to elise sc and [ LOL ] does this mean do I get a 2ZR or 2ZZ [ from existing inventory ] or [ LOL] is this 2ZR for Europe because europe 5 new rules for emissions and the 2ZR was developed with lower emissions - I will be finding out when I pickup car in a week -the pig I am - I am having a stock SC installed on new eng later this wk--- anyway am I crazy or do I have a valid question
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Interesting. According to the Lotus site, the NA Elise (which includes the CR) uses the 1.6L 1ZR-FAE, while the Elise SC uses the 2ZR-FE, which does have a longer stroke. Elise Specifications | Lotus Cars

I wonder what other differences exist between the newer SC-only engine, and the former, which used the same engine, and whether the newer SC could be fitted to the older engine. I also wonder just how many older engines are out there. There are a lot more Toyotas potentially gobbling these up.

Would be especially interested in your experience with the factory SC install
 

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engine ?

It just seemed the more I researched these eng the less I knew - now like I said I am going to confirm what eng is in my car in a wk or so when I pick it up if for no other reason then my own knowledge --- now I know I must follow brake-in rules for approx. 500 mi at least but after that I will be testing that SC with some " spirited " driving if you grasp what I mean --LOL
 

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Question-- if I have a 05 na elise & just had a new engine installed from lotus, out of crate long block from england [lotus] this month is this a 2ZZ-GE or 2ZR-FE----is the 2ZR-FE only for stock SC elise
My guess is that you will be getting a 2ZZ; while the 2ZR is certified in the US for the various Toyota models it comes in, I doubt that Lotus ever went through the process of getting the okay from the government to use it in the Elise.

I have been thinking of this idea for months. I never hear of anybody putting in a stroker crank in thier 2zz. I wonder if it is the same block with a longer stroke or was the block modified? Does anybody know the stroke specs on the new engine? Could someone put this crank in the standard 2zz without too much machine work? Or does anybody know of an aftermarket supplier to get a stroker crank other than the ones for the newer units?
The reason that you don't see many 2ZZ strokers is due to the high-RPM design of the engine; a longer stroke is less conducive to high-RPM operation. An example of this can be seen if you look at Honda's S2000: earlier models has a 2.0l engine with a 9000 RPM redline; in order to increase the torque, Honda later stroked the engine to 2.2l, but had to lower the redline to 8000 RPM. The 2ZZ was designed with a "square" bore-to-stroke ratio, which allows for the high redline and causes the "top-heavy" power band.

Interesting. According to the Lotus site, the NA Elise (which includes the CR) uses the 1.6L 1ZR-FAE, while the Elise SC uses the 2ZR-FE, which does have a longer stroke. Elise Specifications | Lotus Cars

I wonder what other differences exist between the newer SC-only engine, and the former, which used the same engine, and whether the newer SC could be fitted to the older engine. I also wonder just how many older engines are out there. There are a lot more Toyotas potentially gobbling these up.

Would be especially interested in your experience with the factory SC install
You seem to have the idea that the newer supercharger is responsible for the larger torque figure in the newer cars; this is incorrect. As I mentioned before, the design of the engine itself is responsible for this. The newer TVS-style blower IS more efficient than the older MP62 (which means that you could potentially run more boost on a 2ZZ than with an MP62), but the factory setup would be FAR from plug-and-play. In that regard, your best option would be the BOE REV300TVS, which is similar in execution to the factory setup (TVS blower, non-intercooled).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
"You seem to have the idea that the newer supercharger is responsible for the larger torque figure in the newer cars; this is incorrect."

Thanks. I misunderstood your earlier note. I took "contributes" to as meaning the sum of the engine plus the SC, but I see you meant it more along the lines of "is solely (or almost solely) responsible for."

At this point, the factory option is best for me, as my car is still under warranty.
 

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I am hoping that someone can make some sense of this thread. It seems that "Variance" is attempting to clarify/correct some of the posts, and it is appreciated.

vincesf
 

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Hello Kitty... it's already been stated that the statistic for the 2zr is 1.8liters so your question is really odd. And the whole purpose of the thread further addresses your question... it's not the displacement or necessarily the supercharger... it's the STROKE!!! which is how far the piston moves... if the pistons move farther but with same 1.8l displacement it means the cylinders must be different diameter for same final displacement. As example, you can have a 1.8 liter V8 enginer which means the distance traveled and diameter of piston must be devided into 8 tiny cylinders.

Also worth mentioning that it should be boostable higher than the mp45 (current elise SC) and perhaps the mp62 (exige gets the bigger one) but i think the new magnussen that it uses is more similar to the TVS900 (same sized as the MP62)... so the REV300TVS will still be a higher HP option because it's both high efficiency and also another level up in size over the MP62.

I also agree it's unlikely to be a 2zr in the elise becuase of costs to approve engines in cars with federal regs.

One more thing i have a quation about is that if 2zr has longer stroke it means it has higher compression ratio which i believe means you can't boost it as hard because it's already creating higher heat in the cylinder... for example AMG makes their super-charged engines with lower compression ratio so they can boost it more (my understanding anyway).
 

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Does that mean it has a higher liter than 1.8?
No, the 2ZR is also a 1.8. As ewalberg alluded to, the 2ZR has a smaller bore than the 2ZZ. These specifications for the two engines are as follows:
2ZZ Displacement=1796cc Bore=82mm Stroke=85mm
2ZR Displacement=1798cc Bore=80.5mm Stroke=88.3mm

Also worth mentioning that it should be boostable higher than the mp45 (current elise SC) and perhaps the mp62 (exige gets the bigger one) but i think the new magnussen that it uses is more similar to the TVS900 (same sized as the MP62)... so the REV300TVS will still be a higher HP option because it's both high efficiency and also another level up in size over the MP62.
This is not necessarily true. The 2ZR's normally-aspirated output is much lower than the 2ZZ (134 HP vs 189), so the 2ZR-based Elise S is likely running more boost already to match the supercharged 2ZZ's output. This wowuld be makde possible by the newer blower's higher efficiency and the lower compression ratio of the 2ZR (10:1).

One more thing i have a quation about is that if 2zr has longer stroke it means it has higher compression ratio which i believe means you can't boost it as hard because it's already creating higher heat in the cylinder... for example AMG makes their super-charged engines with lower compression ratio so they can boost it more (my understanding anyway).
Compression ratio is not necessarily dependent on the stroke, though it can be affected by it; the ratio depends on the geometry of the combustion chamber itself. If you increase the volume of the combustion chamber (by using a thicker headgasket than normal, for example), then you have effectively lowered the compression ratio without altering the stroke of the engine. In this case, the 2ZR has a much lower compression ratio than the 2ZZ (10:1 vs. 11.5:1) by design, despite the longer stroke. However, if you were to put a crankshaft with a longer stroke into a 2ZZ without altering any other aspects of the engine, you would indeed end up with a higher compression ratio.
 

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Hello Kitty... it's already been stated that the statistic for the 2zr is 1.8liters so your question is really odd.
I was coming from the perspective that a stroker kit increases displacement... therefore "a longer stroke" sounds like more displacement. I knew something must be different, and bore is it. Thanks Variance.
 

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2zz

hav gotten my 05 elise back, a few wks ago, & it is a new 2zz longblock, with a lotus SC added [sweet ], stock SC so not to void new eng. warranty, all I can say is ' SW E E E E T
 

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Every Federal S2 Elise has had the 2ZZ. There has never been any change, even the last edition models have the 2ZZ. I was at a dealer not long ago looking at one of the final SC's produced and it was the same old 2ZZ.


In the UK and elsewhere, many other variants have been produced recently with 1.6's and 1.8's.
 
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