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Mean TT said:
2. Young people saying things like, "Wow dude its got a turbo!!"

3. The additional look when there is a blow off noise in addition to a red Elise going by.
They wont know what they cannot see. Why not plumb your BOV back into the manifold and be stealth? Heck at 5psi you really dont need a BOV. Or are you going for "conspicious"?
 

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Im with MeanTT on this one. I will be turbocharging my elise when I get it. Im going to purchase an extra block from a toyota and get it built. Put in forged rods, pistons etc. Maybe outfit a set of heads with a port polish and Ti VS and Retainers etc. I would like to run 15 lbs of boost on pump gas and 20 on race gas. I am going to lower the compression a bit. Thats one thing that has me wondering. How will the 11:1 engine handle a turbocharger? Who knows? With a lower compression of say 8.5:1 it would certainly be more capable of high boost. And easier to tune on top of that.
 

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OneFastLotus said:
They wont know what they cannot see. Why not plumb your BOV back into the manifold and be stealth? Heck at 5psi you really dont need a BOV. Or are you going for "conspicious"?
At 5 psi you wont hardly hear it. Most BOVs have a 7+ psi requirement and even then they are pretty quiet.
 

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you guys that are thinking of running 15-20psi better be ready for new trannys and possibly rears. Lots of things break when you start doubling or more production parts that are not designed for that much over original spec.
 

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You dont think I know this? Thats pretty obvious. But part of the fun is finding the next weakest link in the car. My last car was a Twin Turbo Dodge Stealth. It was real fast and I ran mid 20s of boost through it. Obviously it wasnt on stock turbos. There are plenty of 4 cylinder engines that run that much boost. With the lower compression and upgraded parts there is no reason that I wont be able to run that much, Depending on the rest of the drivetrain of course.
 

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I think the fundamental problem with 15 to 20 PSI of boost is that there is only 5.5mm of material between the pistons. It is a question of thermodynamics, not strength of materials. Upgraded internals and driveline components will only get you so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
1FASTMX5 said:
you guys that are thinking of running 15-20psi better be ready for new trannys and possibly rears. Lots of things break when you start doubling or more production parts that are not designed for that much over original spec.
This is why I am hesitant of throwing too much at this car. I want a mid range bump, maybe another 50-65 hp, but nothing to risk transmission falure or driveline damage.

The cost of building a motor will rival the cost of a new transmission with possibly straight cut gears, and the reengineering of many suspension parts. I am sure that in the future someone will put the 8.8 Weisco pistons and Crower rods togeather and have a beast of an engine, but it will cost a lot more then just the engine upgrades. Tires will cost a lot too! :D
 

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h
Thermite said:
But part of the fun is finding the next weakest link in the car.
Oookay well you enjoy yourself there .:huh:

I never implied that you cant run 20psi on a 4 banger. This is old news but you really have to start to replace everything all the way to the wheels to keep it reliable.
 

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No offense but you'd need 40psi in a Stealth to go fast. :eek:

I think you're missing the point as to why we're asking about running 20psi. We're aware you can run 20psi on some four bangers, especially one that is built. Its not that....its just that I think to 99% of the people here think 20psi is just silly...even us who are interested in turbos.


This is getting a little fast and furious for my taste. I think the elise on 5-10psi max would be a lovely vehicle.

This talk of 20psi is just "rice- racer" IMHO.

As someone mentioned above, you'd almost have to sleeve the block. It just sounds dumb to me. Kind of smacks of reading on a kiddie honda board or something where everyone thinks you have to run 25psi and the bigger your turbo the better you are.
 

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1FASTMX5 said:
... but you really have to start to replace everything all the way to the wheels to keep it reliable.
I think Thermite used to work for the military industrial complex as a weapons specialist ... Possibly some type of explosives expert ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #33
OneFastLotus said:
No offense but you'd need 40psi in a Stealth to go fast. :eek:

I think you're missing the point as to why we're asking about running 20psi. We're aware you can run 20psi on some four bangers, especially one that is built. Its not that....its just that I think to 99% of the people here think 20psi is just silly...even us who are interested in turbos.


This is getting a little fast and furious for my taste. I think the elise on 5-10psi max would be a lovely vehicle.

This talk of 20psi is just "rice- racer" IMHO.
The real problem is that to my knowledge, there are only 2 styles f pistons available. There are 12 to 1 and 8.8 to 1. Clearly, the 8.8 needs a lot of boost to make up for the energy lost from compression, but I agree that 20+ PSI is a LOT of boost, and it woudl require a turbo that would give up a lot in the mid range for the top end. It might be a Garrett 3937 or 3071 turbo for that, but there again, you will only be distorting the shape of the already frentic power curve. It is the same thing with most superchargers which act to elevate the existing power curve. It is a well known fact that much more than 7 PSI breaks connecting rods in the engine, and that this engine can not be bored over due to the type of metal matrix Toyota used in the construction of the block. Therefore Sleeving the block using forgerd pistons and connection rods, and studs would be required. I personally don't think that you can run 20+ PSI on any air to water intercooler system that would fit in the Elise, let alone the driveline problems that would occur.

Translation, I agree with you, but I would still love to see someone try it.
 

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well, here we go again....
why is he ricer boy if he wants 20psi of boost rather than 5??
cause u say so?
anyway, i think with lowered compression either the 3937 or the 3071 would work fine in the elise or just about any other car.
i have the 3076 which is bigger than those 2 and i hit 25psi at 4k. and thats a 3700 pound car...the 3937 just may work much better than what a lot of you think....and dont count out 3076...of course there should be at least lowered compression before i would go with any of these 3 turbos.
i mean, in stock form the elise cant get out of its own way till around 6k, and even then its debatable...
anyway, i prefer s/c, but in principle its the same...i dont want to compare s/c and turbo....
i think when adding whatever hp were gonna add, im more worried about the half shafts. the trans will take a lot of abuse and if u blow it, send it to shepard racing...for 2500 bucks, it will never break again. the half shafts though may keep snapping. especially if ur getting traction...
 

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>>>I don't see how having more potential HP will damage anything. This same argument could be made that the additional hp would upset the balance of the car when the toyota engine was added from the original 120 hp Rover K series. You are right in assuming that you might need more control are finess, but that can be said about any car. I understand you point, however, it could be expanded upon any car where more hp is added.<<<

I've autocrossed NA, SC and Turbo cars. That's the order I prefer, for throttle response reasons. I've tracked NA and Turbo and there is less of an issue as there is more time to prepare for pedal inputs. But softer response is still less satisfying. You can get more NA grunt with cubic inches, but you can't get more from the 2ZZ without big changes and side effects such as a lower redline.

Over on the Celica site you mention that you just want to be a ble to leave it in 6th and pass folks. It's not that hard to downshift! A turbo car cruising in 6th will still have lag since the turbo won't be at the same RPM it would be spinning had you been at WOT already and simply passing through that particular RPM.

As I understand your desires, a larger NA engine of maybe 2.2 to 2.5 liters might solve the problem. A centrifugal SC won't. A roots could....at about 5 PSI it would tend to act about like a 2.3 to 2.4 liter lump.

You might wish to get that Honda VTEC 2 to 2.4 liter conversion with or without supercharger. It would tend to provide more of what you appear to be looking for than a low PSI turbo on the stock motor.

In the meantime our motors are quite safe to rev. Why not leave it in 4th more often? Then you don't have to shift as much... Or even 3rd for many conditions.
 

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I think Randy needs to give us all Nerf Baseball bats and let us just all go into a boxing ring and have at it! :D

No....TURBO is better! :SMACK:

No, NA is better!! :BOP:

I said TURBO!! :WACK:

No you're both wrong SC is better!! :BONK:
 

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evomind said:
well, here we go again....
why is he ricer boy if he wants 20psi of boost rather than 5??
cause u say so?
No, maybe I was a bit harsh last night. I was in a mood :no: Sorry.

I guess what I mean is that the elise is a lovely car as it sits, with its stock power. I personally DO think that this car could benefit from a little bit of boost for low end grunt and a little extra oomph. The car is light, and doesnt need much to move it. I think 5 or 6 psi would be a lovely thing.


I just think someone coming in and saying " Im gonna run 20psi" just sounds kind of rice boy. Not very well thought out or someone who doesnt know much about power to weight or forced induction. 20psi is alot of boost. This isnt a supra or some other land barge highway geared behemoth.

Im not saying he's a rice boy, it just sounded that way to me last night in the mood I was in. I'd think if anyone would understand that mind set it would be me..... Im someone who has been known to go to great excesses making 4 cylinder cars with grossly uneeded amounts of power just for giggles.
I just dont see the elise being a good drag car and a 20psi autocross elise is just plain retarded IMHO.

If he is thining "Drag racing elise". I just think that would be silly too. I know people said the same about a miata but the miata is much more utilitarian/common and I did it just to be the first to do something. The elise is a delicate refined machine and it would seem silly to me to try and put that much boost to it and just plain needless.

I dunno... I just dont get it and if anyone would get something that nutty, it would be me. I just think its silly, but maybe Im being a hypocrite. Dunno.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Stan said:


You might wish to get that Honda VTEC 2 to 2.4 liter conversion with or without supercharger. It would tend to provide more of what you appear to be looking for than a low PSI turbo on the stock motor.

That conversion is 15,000 dollars. After careful consideration, the answer is...
NO, too damn expensive.

I still don't 'understand why people are getting so mad about the possibility of a turbo on MY car. If you want to supercharge your car, go for it. I will get a turbo, and have taken steps to arrange the installation. I still am looking ofr dyno graphs of this turbo on a 2zz-ge engine, and can't find any. The IHI series used on other kits is not applicable. Any Garrett turbo pyno woul dbe nice, but they are hard to find.

Your mention on the Celica site about the Lotus supercharger is a good idea, bot like I said there, I predict that it will never happen. With all of their delays, poor management, slow production, new cars in development, and inability to stock even simple items like a skid guard, I will not give them any more money - period.
 

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...or you could just buy a Noble and be done with it!
 
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