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Discussion Starter #1
Folks,

Over the weekend I went along with a friend of mine, who is going to purchase the Subary Rally car (the sti), for a test drive. The car was incredibly fast. Would anyone be able to tell me how fast the Elise will be compared to this car? I was personally impressed. I had no idea that Subaru had built such a monster. Will the Elise even compete?

Thanks and opologies in advance if I got the name of the car wrong or if its a stupid question.
 

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I won't even begin to discuss straight line speed or raw cornering grip. Both cars have plenty of straight line speed and cornering grip. In my opinion, what you have to consider are handling characteristics (i.e., what makes a car a simple pleasure to drive), and the vast multitude of qualities that make a car both a great learning car, and a car from which to extract the utmost performance as quickly as possible.

For example, plenty of cars have numb, non-comminicative steering but can still kick ass on the track if driven properly. The STi might possibly fall in this category. Relative to the Elise, it is extremely heavy, and its AWD probably serves to further isolate the driver, ir not introdcue understeer as would a FWD car. The Elise, meanwhile, because it is so communicative, allows beginning drivers to explore limits, and experienced drivers to immediately take the car to its limits. That's what I'm looking for in the Elise. That, and all the non-boosted steering feel and dividends offered by light weight.

They say karts are excellent learning tools because vehicle dynamics are so incredibly exposed to the driver. The Elise is kart-like; the STi is not -- from what's I've read. The Lancer Evo, meanwhile, appears to more of a driver's car than the STi.
 

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MarvinVA said:
Folks,

Over the weekend I went along with a friend of mine, who is going to purchase the Subary Rally car (the sti), for a test drive. The car was incredibly fast. Would anyone be able to tell me how fast the Elise will be compared to this car? I was personally impressed. I had no idea that Subaru had built such a monster. Will the Elise even compete?

Thanks and opologies in advance if I got the name of the car wrong or if its a stupid question.
I own an sti and I can say that the Subaru is the best car I have owned, including a 2000 Mcoupe, an 87 e30 M3, and a few others no real need to mention. The STi is FAST and very modifiable for those who are into that type of relationship with your car. I would only sell my STi for an elise (yes, the sti is for sale).

However, stating all that I have said, I will sell the STi for the Elise. The STi is heavy only compaired to the elise, however in a straight line I will bet that an STi will out preform an elise, I dont think this will be the case on a track or in a corner. They are different types of cars with different purposes, chose your needs and go from there!

Adam P
World Rally Blue Sti (For Sale)
 

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I agree with Jon, cars can feel totally different based on their "tossability". I think thats why so many people love driving 100rwhp miatas. :)

In a comparo, rough guesstimates using crank horsewpower and weight. The 2004 STI vs the Elise in a straight line...the Elise would win.

I came up with 13.5 for the Elise and 13.7 for the STI.


Even the way the power comes on can affect how fast a car feels. We had a really powerful RX7 who's power was very linear and as such didnt feel "as fast". Whereas we have a small turbo miata that is fast, but not as fast as the RX7...and yet because of the slingshot effect of the turbo it *FELT* 10X faster.

My guess is that given the tossability of this car, and the fact that the elise begs to be pushed, combined with the healthier hp from Hethel..its going to feel great!
 

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Re: Re: Elise vs Subaru Rally car

Adam P said:
STi is heavy only compaired to the elise,
Well, I will concede that at 3086 pounds, the STi is light compared to all the porkers masquerading as sports cars these days. My god, what do new M3s and S4s weigh? It's obscene.

But the Elise is a full 1,000 pounds less porky than the STi!!! Imagine. It boggles the mind. And those 1,000 fewer pounds will lead to driving dyanamics that will offer a completely different (and ultimately more rewarding) experience.

(Not trying to convince you, Adam... Trying to make a point to Marvin.)
 

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Re: Re: Re: Elise vs Subaru Rally car

JonM3Coupe said:
Well, I will concede that at 3086 pounds, the STi is light compared to all the porkers masquerading as sports cars these days. My god, what do new M3s and S4s weigh? It's obscene.

But the Elise is a full 1,000 pounds less porky than the STi!!! Imagine. It boggles the mind. And those 1,000 fewer pounds will lead to driving dyanamics that will offer a completely different (and ultimately more rewarding) experience.

(Not trying to convince you, Adam... Trying to make a point to Marvin.)
lol.. Either way you look at, the STi is a real performer in today's under 30' market. Heck, I have alot of pals who own e46 m3's that are not as fast on a roll as my STi, and its 25k less expensive!

As jon said, the elise is a more purest automobile and as "Ms. Miata" said is tossable in direct comparision from the STi. We have no idea what numbers the elise will produce, and we can not go by what the mag's are publishing, those are just indicators that are usually -/+ .5 off. I have seen STi's go 12.9 in a q-mile completly stock, if the elise will do this then there are more reasons to buy one then I am aware of!!!

I would drive an STi, if its for you, call me and we can work out a deal!

Adam P
 

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shallowness alert, but the STI is such a bland car, I really like something that's sporty looking, performance is nice but I don't want a stealth car that looks like all the other "hot hatches" out there. Ditto the Lancer EVO and WRX(?) maybe the greatest performing cars this side of an f1 car ( kidding!) but butt ugly, especially with the rear wing.
Chris
 

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I liked the STI from day one it offers a lot of bang for the buck. You should be aware however that a stock STI is a long way from a real rally car in virtually every way. It also is a very different car from the Elise. I view the STI as a good year round car if you want something fast that can go in the snow (change the tires for winter use), can carry four adults and has a trunk.

Most would consider the Elise to be more about handling than straight line speed. The STI is perhaps better if that is your goal (I never said quicker). Both cars stock it would be very close and would more likely be down to driving skill that anything else. Both require a up-shift to reach sixty.

In the end it's really down to what you want. The US Elise is the most practical Elise ever, but few would really call it practical. The STI can function as a practical car not just as a weekend toy. It is rare for a Subaru but not as rare as the Elise will be.

In the end you must choose for yourself. They are both great cars.
 

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I know some one who bought one as well, and you are right it is really fast. I asked him and he told me it relativley easy to modify and informed me he was running close to 400HP.
 

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Is it raining/snowing/just darn cold? If so, I know who is going to win. :D

As for straight line, 0-30 the Elise will not likely have a chance (if the STi driver doesn't care much about his clutch). After that, who knows. Hopefully in a few months I'll have both (I'm still in the break-in period on my new STi), and will be able to make direct comparisons.

But driving dynamics are a whole 'nother matter. The STi feels sprightly compared to my S4, and surprisingly, not that heavy or "numb" compared to the Miata. But that weight difference, the weight distribution and RWD vs. AWD mean they are completely different animals. But, they're both animals. I still know which I'd rather drive in the snow! And which I'd rather drive at Watkins Glen!
 

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0-60 wise, the WRX STI, Lancer Evo VII, and the Elise are all within about 1 or 2 tenths (I think the Fed Elise LSS came out on top, but they aren't real times until we get a real car to test). But if you have to haul an extra 1000lbs around the corners, you can bet the Elise is going to have the fastest lap times on a track. Fastest down a dirt/snow/gravel/otherwise-bumpy mountain road, maybe you should stick to a rally car.

All in all, they are all good cars, and you can't beat the $/performance of the rally inspired cars, but I think I'll be sticking to the Elise.
 

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JonM3Coupe said:
Well, I will concede that at 3086 pounds, the STi is light compared to all the porkers masquerading as sports cars these days.
That's the weight of a regular WRX. The curb weight of the STi is 3263 lbs.

The cars are so different that it really depends on what you use if for. The STi holds four people, has a trunk that has rooms for groceries, you don't need instructions to get in and out ;) , and it will perform great in any weather. If you need a car that is fast, fun to drive, and still practical as a daily driver, it's hard to beat. I think that very few people will buy the Elise as their only car, it will be a weekend/race toy for most. For that purpose, I expect that the Elise will be more fun to drive.

Performance wise, straight line speed should be very similar, STi's typically run low 13s bone stock, which is close to the Elise specs. The STi will be much easier to make faster, that's the beauty of turbo cars. A few simple bolt-ons should easily get you close to 400 HP, and more can be had without much trouble.

The STi handles amazingly well for a sedan off the showroom floor. I don't know where all the understeer talk in the reviews came from, it felt perfectly neutral to me. A bit soft in quick transitions, but that can be changed. I'm sure that the Elise will turn faster in stock form, and also when both cars are updated. A front heavy car that carries 1300 lbs more weight is just at a big disadvantage.

About the thread title, it may look very much like the rally car, but there are obviously big differences. I don't know all the technical details, but I doubt that the cars have much in common. Just the fact that a WRC car costs about $500,000, and an STi $30,000, should give a clear indication. :)

Summary: I want both! :D These are great times for car freaks, so many interesting cars have been hitting the US over the last few years.

And Chris, you're the first person I ever heard calling an STi "stealth"! Some people won't buy it because they can't deal with the giant wing and the hood scoop that swallows small animals.
 

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JonM3Coupe said:

For example, plenty of cars have numb, non-comminicative steering but can still kick ass on the track if driven properly. The STi might possibly fall in this category. Relative to the Elise, it is extremely heavy, and its AWD probably serves to further isolate the driver, ir not introdcue understeer as would a FWD car. The Elise, meanwhile, because it is so communicative, allows beginning drivers to explore limits, and experienced drivers to immediately take the car to its limits. That's what I'm looking for in the Elise. That, and all the non-boosted steering feel and dividends offered by light weight.
I'd turn that on it's head and say the STi helps so much a beginner can get close to it's limits - having been out in a 280bhp STi, I feel I can comment on that. The elise is very communicative but you *must* know what to do with those signals it's sending or you will be straight into the scenery in your first year of ownership. The STi helps so much (active diffs, yaw control, 4WD, etc) it's like a video game. Driving an elise quickly and smoothly is challenging, but fun.

For me it's not about speed. I like my elise because i enjoy driving it - that's more important to me than anything else. It's the experience that's important, not the speed - though obviously you're buying something quick with the elise.

Craigy
 

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Craigy said:

For me it's not about speed. I like my elise because i enjoy driving it - that's more important to me than anything else. It's the experience that's important, not the speed - though obviously you're buying something quick with the elise.
I agree 100%. Its certainly a lot more fun to drive a quick car near the limit than a slow one tho. I drive a Chevy Blazer near the limit all the time, and its not too much fun. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
About the Sti for Sale

Thanks all for the info! I knew I could count on everyone here for the answer. You've made me feel alot better and more confident about the competitiveness of the Elise.

I personally would never buy an Sti, again I was just impressed with its power considering I'm used to regular cars.

Adam, send me an email, my friend in serious about the Sti and will be paying cash. I'd be happy to put both of you in contact.

[email protected]
 

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Evl said:
I agree 100%. Its certainly a lot more fun to drive a quick car near the limit than a slow one tho. I drive a Chevy Blazer near the limit all the time, and its not too much fun. ;)
Whatever you do, don't get out of your elise and into that monstrosity. You'll roll it for sure!

I hope not though!

Craigy
 

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Craigy said:
Whatever you do, don't get out of your elise and into that monstrosity. You'll roll it for sure!

I hope not though!

Craigy

What on earth leads you to believe that you would roll an STi? Thats plain dumb..

Adam P
 

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Adam P said:
What on earth leads you to believe that you would roll an STi? Thats plain dumb..

Adam P
Are you being serious? Who is the dumb one here? ;)
 
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