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that one truly sweet car

carpet lets it down though.

35k? jeez,

i saw one in terrible condition last week in side street tokyo. looks like a daily driver but in need of some work....35k?,,,,hmmm
 

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that one truly sweet car

carpet lets it down though.

35k? jeez,

i saw one in terrible condition last week in side street tokyo. looks like a daily driver but in need of some work....35k?,,,,hmmm
And that's not meeting the reserve...

I want one... but.. ughhh!
 

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:drool: If money wasn't a bit tight this year, I'd definitely make an offer although this blue is not my first choice.
 

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And that's not meeting the reserve...

I want one... but.. ughhh!
I dunno what the market's like right now, but a few years ago that 35K would have not even been close. The cost to restore one of these is just almost unbelievable.

I was at the shop of a guy that restores these (think he might have done this car as he 'rediscovered' this color after no one could find any existing examples) and the amount of time in the car he was working on gave me a nosebleed. I think they were over 300 hours in bodywork and painting. Someone was hand fabricating a bunch of unavailable parts like the bumpers. The engine and transmission cost maybe 20K to rebuild, and the list goes on and on.

Whatever this car sells for will be a bargain compared to restoring one.
 

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I dunno what the market's like right now, but a few years ago that 35K would have not even been close. The cost to restore one of these is just almost unbelievable.

I was at the shop of a guy that restores these (think he might have done this car as he 'rediscovered' this color after no one could find any existing examples) and the amount of time in the car he was working on gave me a nosebleed. I think they were over 300 hours in bodywork and painting. Someone was hand fabricating a bunch of unavailable parts like the bumpers. The engine and transmission cost maybe 20K to rebuild, and the list goes on and on.

Whatever this car sells for will be a bargain compared to restoring one.
Not gonna disagree, RoadDad I think it was, mentioned something about one selling in the $75k range a little while back.
 

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Beautiful car!

So the side windows are removable on those cars? and one is tranluscent/opaque?
 

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...Someone was hand fabricating a bunch of unavailable parts like the bumpers. The engine and transmission cost maybe 20K to rebuild, and the list goes on and on.
I have heard that front bumpers are now available and that used transmission are fairly plentiful, having been used on a much more common car.
 

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Type 14 Elite, both S1 and S2, prices are all over the map, but are mostly above the $45-50K mark. Andykeck is correct in that the cost to restore an Elite is quite high. The CBU (Chassis Body Unit) is where much of the cost comes from. I know one past owner who spent in excess of $100K to restore his S1 Elite only because of damage to the CBU. Engine, etc were all in fine shape and just needed to be lightly spruced up. He did sell the car about 2 years ago for $85K. All told he lost over $40K on the deal.

But this is not unique to the Elite, or to Lotus, or to fiberglass bodied cars (although they are much more expensive to have body work done on -- my local (and best) body shop has a labor rate of $45/hr for everything but fiberglass work. The glass work rate is $89/hr). It is (almost) always cheaper to buy an already restored car than to restore one yourself (if the car has been properly restored that is). One mantra amongst all the the guys that I know who have restored cars (myself included) is "you NEVER get back what you put into it, even if you do all the work yourself."

I have closely followed Elite (both the Type 14 and also the '70s Elite/Eclat pricing) for the past 4 or 5 years. I have a very good sense of the market especially with the Type 14 and will say (although I haven't looked at this one in particular so I don't know the condition) that $35K is not high (actually not even realistic) if the car doesn't have major issues, flaws or multiple minor issues, particularly bodywork requirements... The least expensive Type 14 I have seen was ~$45K, race prepped/roll cage/non-street drivable condition and I was shocked he only wanted that much. It sold in under 24hours.

Now to pull up the fleabay page. [email protected] dial-up... 56Kbs away!

And Drmike, carpeting is one of the less expensive things to change in a restoration ;).
 

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Agree with RoadDad on all points. I too follow pricing for just about all vintage Lotus. I figure a reasonable nice condition Elite to go for approx $50k. Obviously details like originality, history, specification (there was a Super 95 and Super 105 version) all play a factor as well.

This one is probably right there at $50. It is a well done recent restoration of a non Super model in a nice, but not particularly desirable color for Elites. The carpet is new, but not particularly well done or attactive, and the wheels look gray in the pics rather than silver (I'm guessing they should look silver since the owner says they are painted Argent). I don't know why the one window is opaque. I'm guessing there is some sort of protective film on it, and that it is new.
 

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As usual it is very difficult to judge from pictures alone and an ebay description (particularly the descriptions).

There are a few minor issues that I can see but not all of the pictures have downloaded. The window seals need some attention. There are a few paint chips and a scrape (leave 'em or pay $6-10K). Steering wheel badge is missing (minor). The wheels, although the seller states they are "restored original," IMO need some work as they should be silver. Some minor interior cleaning and non-original pieces. Personal tastes come into play some here as well... I prefer a black interior but the exterior color is one of my favorites (I think because my wife has always agreed to only that color or BRG if I were to buy one) so I'd deal with the tan. The engine bay seems to be clean. The carpeting is not that great, but that can easily and for not much $$ be redone...

If the "mechanicals and electricals" are truly in order, or at least as good as most of the "cosmeticals" even with the minor flaws, I'd be surprised if the seller isn't looking for mid $60s for this car. He may not get it, but I bet that's what he's looking for.
 

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Beautiful car!

So the side windows are removable on those cars? and one is tranluscent/opaque?
Yes, removable. No, opaque. Opaque windows are not very useful in a car. I haven't see the opaque window pic yet so I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly, but they are all supposed to be transparent.
 

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Agree with RoadDad on all points. I too follow pricing for just about all vintage Lotus. I figure a reasonable nice condition Elite to go for approx $50k.

Lately for some reason they have been pricing in the low to mid $70K range for both the "reasonable nice condition" and the "stunning" cars EXCEPT for one in the UK. It was one of the best that I've ever seen. They were asking for $65K for an absolutely perfect restoration. I couldn't come up with the funds otherwise it would be in my garage right now, or in my bedroom and the wife would be in the garage -- either way would have been fine with me for that car... There have been more Type 14s on the market in the past 4-6 months than I've seen in the past 2 years.

Obviously details like originality, history, specification (there was a Super 95 and Super 105 version) all play a factor as well.

+1. For me, originality and history are far more important.

This one is probably right there at $50.

I'd betcha they are asking mid $60s. I'd bet my Seven, Elise and one daughter (you pick) against your Europa. Deal?

It is a well done recent restoration of a non Super model in a nice, but not particularly desirable color for Elites.

I love the color but I also don't find the S4 Seven to be all that ugly either :rolleyes:.

The carpet is new, but not particularly well done or attactive, and the wheels look gray in the pics rather than silver (I'm guessing they should look silver since the owner says they are painted Argent).

So, it wasn't just my computer screen then.... whew.

I don't know why the one window is opaque. I'm guessing there is some sort of protective film on it, and that it is new.
That's a good thought, although the pictures are still downloading. [email protected] 56K...
^

EDIT: Kyle, that bet offer is for real but I'd be willing to let you pick another of your Lotus instead of the Europa ;).
 

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^

EDIT: Kyle, that bet offer is for real but I'd be willing to let you pick another of your Lotus instead of the Europa ;).
RoadDad,

I never make a bet unless I know I can win it so.......

You may be right. I wouldn't be surprised if the car sold for $60k, but I, personally wouldn't pay that much. Actually, I don't think it will sell on the e-bay auction. Too few cars sell there. It is primarily cheap advertisement, and I think many put very high reserves to feel out the market.

I kinda like the S4 Seven as well. Even the 70's Elite/Eclat - I even looked for an SA (automatic) so my would could have a Lotus to drive (tried to teach her the stick, but failed).







Hmm, the Seven, Elise and a daughter? How old are they (the daughters, not the cars) and will they sweep my Barn, wash the cars, and help me bleed the brakes? (All these things my wife won't do).




Tempting, but no thank you.
 

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I fail as a Lotus fan. I thought that OP spelled Elise wrong. :(

Never heard of an Elite. Not a car anyway.
I think this forum needs a section on Lotus history. I feel a need to educate the neophytes.
 

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RoadDad,

I never make a bet unless I know I can win it so.......

Neither do I ;). I was pretty sure I was right. So sure I was willing to bet 2 cars and a daughter.

You may be right. I wouldn't be surprised if the car sold for $60k, but I, personally wouldn't pay that much.

Neither would I on either account. If you stick it out long enough you can pretty much find someone who's willing to pay anything... I think that your original thought of $50K is generous for the car.

Actually, I don't think it will sell on the e-bay auction. Too few cars sell there. It is primarily cheap advertisement, and I think many put very high reserves to feel out the market.

That is just spot on. I actually had a dealer who has been trying to off a +2 tell me that very same thing. He will NOT however sell the car for current market price. He's stuck on adding about $10K over what he realistically could get for it :shrug:.

I kinda like the S4 Seven as well. Even the 70's Elite/Eclat - I even looked for an SA (automatic) so my would could have a Lotus to drive (tried to teach her the stick, but failed).







Hmm, the Seven, Elise and a daughter? How old are they (the daughters, not the cars) and will they sweep my Barn, wash the cars, and help me bleed the brakes? (All these things my wife won't do).

Current choices would include 12, 9, 7 or 5. If you want true help with the cars, pick either the 12 or 9. Any of the four can work the barn or wash dishes, etc. but the oldest 2 will be a better choice for the car work. Actually, if you point the 9 yo to the tools and the cars she could bleed the brakes and change the oil for you pretty much alone. Give me another 3 or 4 months and she could tune your carbs as well ;).



Tempting, but no thank you.

Are you sure? They really cute and work hard... and you get to pick.
I was pretty sure that I was spot on with my guesstimate on what their asking price would be. I pretty much have only been following the Elite pricing lately and have the trends worked out. The only one that I have been wrong on so far in the past 2.5 years was the above mentioned UK car. $65K :wallbang:. I would have paid well over that but no funds and the car selling in a few hours doesn't help with the acquisition.

After posting that bet I started to get a little scared that you might take it and I would end up being way off. So, I got some more info sent to me about the car and just got it... Included was a link (1961 Elite).

And the asking price is:













$64,500 USD

I wish you had said yes. I'd be PMing my shipping address to you right now if you had :D.
 
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