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It's funny to me that people complain about the performance numbers released and yet they sold out the first run already. I think the specs and numbers will come out in the fall and all this complaining and disappointment was for nothing.
 

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I have to say I'm a new member (to this forum) and the environment here is interesting. I'm perplexed. I excepted a concentration of Lotus guys to "get it" in regards to driver engagement, with threads discussing man-machine interface, chassis/suspension dynamics, steering/braking feel/linearity, road/track racing, autox, etc. Instead its a bunch of guys arguing about cars that couldn't be further away from being cross-shopped with Lotus (C8s, really?), lack of horsepower, and other non driver-centric grumblings. I expected the vibe here to be a bit more enthusiast and mature, whereas it seems a lot of people in here are more about flash and bench racing.

The 2 biggest complaints I see is weight and horsepower. I don't understand it. This is slightly massaged extruded aluminum Evora chassis (which was great to start with), with slightly larger track width and a small change in length. Evora GT weighed ~3130lbs and was in the 3080lb range with all the lightweight carbon options. Emira was quoted to be 1405kg (3097lbs), with twice the interior and 3x the feature content (real stereo, infotainment, blindspot monitoring, radar cruise, rain sensitive wipers, etc). What's the fuss? In regards to power, literally nothing is set in stone, and as others have mentioned, from a strategic standpoint, why would Lotus give away the farm with firm specs, almost 10 months from launch. They are still calibrating and tinkering away. Even with 400hp, how much more do you need on the street to carve up a canyon? Its perfect imo.

This forum seem to be a split of existing owners desperately trying to validate their previous Lotus purchases by nit-picking the Emira apart or guys who expect a struggling manufacturer's launch of rebodied Evora GT to be a 2300lb Elise with 600hp. Both camps seem to be vested in Lotus's failure, not success. People seem so jaded by previous Lotus experience, strange.

***puts on flamesuit
All true, but the grand slam response of the public at Goodwood means it doesn't matter. Lotus selling out their entire first production run for the U.K. just at Goodwood alone, means they got it right, and now they know it. They're already gearing up for 2nd and 3rd shifts for producing a car that isn't even going to start production until next year. They appear to have actually planned to succeed, and now that they know they have, they're going to be ready.
 

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I'v
Watch the video "Lotus: A New Dawn" Lotus A New Dawn.mkv and you'll have a different view of all this. They were still working on getting the blue car ready for Goodwood only two weeks before the show. They know what they're doing, they 'get it', and this is going to be not just a great Lotus, but a great car period.

I believe we'll be getting more numbers and specs sometime in September, but after watching that video, I have a great deal of confidence in the team developing this car.
I've watched the preview, thanks for the suggestion. My view hasn't changed. I still hold Lotus in high regard and am committed to continuing my ownership of my Exige as well as adding more Lotus' to my stable.

In terms of their success with this new release, I fear the the issue isn't whether they get it: rather does the market or their prospective buyers get it.
 

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I'v


I've watched the preview, thanks for the suggestion. My view hasn't changed. I still hold Lotus in high regard and am committed to continuing my ownership of my Exige as well as adding more Lotus' to my stable.

In terms of their success with this new release, I fear the the issue isn't whether they get it: rather does the market or their prospective buyers get it.
They already did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #185 ·
I have to say I'm a new member (to this forum) and the environment here is interesting. I'm perplexed. I excepted a concentration of Lotus guys to "get it" in regards to driver engagement, with threads discussing man-machine interface, chassis/suspension dynamics, steering/braking feel/linearity, road/track racing, autox, etc. Instead its a bunch of guys arguing about cars that couldn't be further away from being cross-shopped with Lotus (C8s, really?), lack of horsepower, and other non driver-centric grumblings. I expected the vibe here to be a bit more enthusiast and mature, whereas it seems a lot of people in here are more about flash and bench racing.

The 2 biggest complaints I see is weight and horsepower. I don't understand it. This is slightly massaged extruded aluminum Evora chassis (which was great to start with), with slightly larger track width and a small change in length. Evora GT weighed ~3130lbs and was in the 3080lb range with all the lightweight carbon options. Emira was quoted to be 1405kg (3097lbs), with twice the interior and 3x the feature content (real stereo, infotainment, blindspot monitoring, radar cruise, rain sensitive wipers, etc). What's the fuss? In regards to power, literally nothing is set in stone, and as others have mentioned, from a strategic standpoint, why would Lotus give away the farm with firm specs, almost 10 months from launch. They are still calibrating and tinkering away. Even with 400hp, how much more do you need on the street to carve up a canyon? Its perfect imo.

This forum seem to be a split of existing owners desperately trying to validate their previous Lotus purchases by nit-picking the Emira apart or guys who expect a struggling manufacturer's launch of rebodied Evora GT to be a 2300lb Elise with 600hp. Both camps seem to be vested in Lotus's failure, not success. People seem so jaded by previous Lotus experience, strange.

***puts on flamesuit
If your gen 5 viper had the same or close to the same stock horsepower as your orange gen 4 and was advertised as slightly slower would that be as exciting? ( well besides the all forged engine) but performance wise. I doubt it. It’s 10 months away from launch but people are reserving them now. Now is the time to make me want it. Not finding out in 10 months its faster than they said it would be. Plus I’m strictly going by the Emira’s advertised 4.5 0 to 60 compared to the Evora Gt’s advertised 3.9 time. A perfect example is I haven’t reserved one yet and I was definitely gonna but I’m waiting now cause I’m not sure if it’s gonna be quick enough and I might wait until they make one that is. Which is fine if they offer that. However yes, if they don’t offer a quicker version and it’s not faster than the Evora gt. Then a used Evora gt works better for me. Doesn’t that sound bad. They have a whole new plant and model and some people might still want the old model. Wouldn’t it be easier just to make it quicker than the Gt to begin with? Everyone has there opinion I guess I was just voicing mine. I think it should be faster than the gt and I think we should know now before we order it that’s all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #186 ·
It's funny to me that people complain about the performance numbers released and yet they sold out the first run already. I think the specs and numbers will come out in the fall and all this complaining and disappointment was for nothing.
Hope so.
 

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They already did.
No, they haven't. I'm not yet sold nor are several of my colleagues on this forum (and it has nothing to do with 0-60). They apparently sold out a limited-production run of first editions. The true test will be how many they're selling three years from now and beyond.
 

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If your gen 5 viper had the same or close to the same stock horsepower as your orange gen 4 and was advertised as slightly slower would that be as exciting? ( well besides the all forged engine) but performance wise. I doubt it. It’s 10 months away from launch but people are reserving them now. Now is the time to make me want it. Not finding out in 10 months its faster than they said it would be. Plus I’m strictly going by the Emira’s advertised 4.5 0 to 60 compared to the Evora Gt’s advertised 3.9 time. A perfect example is I haven’t reserved one yet and I was definitely gonna but I’m waiting now cause I’m not sure if it’s gonna be quick enough and I might wait until they make one that is. Which is fine if they offer that. However yes, if they don’t offer a quicker version and it’s not faster than the Evora gt. Then a used Evora gt works better for me. Doesn’t that sound bad. They have a whole new plant and model and some people might still want the old model. Wouldn’t it be easier just to make it quicker than the Gt to begin with? Everyone has there opinion I guess I was just voicing mine. I think it should be faster than the gt and I think we should know now before we order it that’s all.
You seem to be focused on only one thing; faster. You also seem to recognize that this First Edition may not be for you, and that's perfectly okay too. If you don't want to put down a refundable deposit to hold your place in the line while we wait to get the final production specs, then that's also fine. You must also realize that if you don't already have a place in line by the time the final specs are revealed, and this First Edition IS in fact faster than the last Evora, you won't be able to get one. In a real sense this is a gamble right now, especially for the folks like you who are so focused on that one metric. I'm guessing the vast majority who've placed their deposit (like me) aren't that concerned about it. Either way it's good that Lotus has sold out it's first production run, because that means if this First Edition isn't the one you want, the Second Edition will have the funding to be that car.

This First Edition car is aimed at a much broader market than the small hardcore Lotus customer base. The car for that base is now most certainly already in the works.
 

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No one has bought the car yet, they just have a magical “placeholder” to spec their car, and there will be plenty to buy as I bet more then 25% will not commit when the time comes to put real non refundable money down. This isn’t the Popeye Spicy chicken sandwich where idiots were waiting outside for days to get a sandwich. There will be plenty of them to go around once people realize the brand/car isn’t for them.
 

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No, they haven't. I'm not yet sold nor are several of my colleagues on this forum (and it has nothing to do with 0-60). They apparently sold out a limited-production run of first editions. The true test will be how many they're selling three years from now and beyond.
I respectfully disagree; yeah they have, because what's going to happen three years from now depended heavily on what just happened at Goodwood. They sold out a limited-production run that's three times more than they've ever produced in a year. I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the video I linked to, because it wasn't the Lotus preview video. It's a really good behind-the-scenes backstory video of the people at Lotus, and what they're doing with this car and getting ready to produce it. Watch it. It shows some very interesting areas of the facility, and what they're doing to make this a great car, even down to the sounds the controls inside the car make.

And honestly, no insult, but you and several of your colleagues on this forum not being sold means nothing really. They needed to reach the marketplace way beyond you and several of your colleagues in order to survive and grow as a business. They've already done that; now they need to deliver.

As for me, this is already more exciting and interesting than anything being done or offered by any other manufacturer in a price range I can afford, so I'm assuming positive intent here and giving them the chance to make it happen.
 

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I respectfully disagree; yeah they have, because what's going to happen three years from now depended heavily on what just happened at Goodwood. They sold out a limited-production run that's three times more than they've ever produced in a year. I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the video I linked to, because it wasn't the Lotus preview video. It's a really good behind-the-scenes backstory video of the people at Lotus, and what they're doing with this car and getting ready to produce it. Watch it. It shows some very interesting areas of the facility, and what they're doing to make this a great car, even down to the sounds the controls inside the car make.

And honestly, no insult, but you and several of your colleagues on this forum not being sold means nothing really. They needed to reach the marketplace way beyond you and several of your colleagues in order to survive and grow as a business. They've already done that; now they need to deliver.

As for me, this is already more exciting and interesting than anything being done or offered by any other manufacturer in a price range I can afford, so I'm assuming positive intent here and giving them the chance to make it happen.
They didn’t sell out anything....it’s freaking refundable deposit. All speculative. Means nothing until the real money starts changing hands. And backing out isn’t an option anymore. Deposits show interest. Hell I had 2 of them and backed out on both when I saw how stupid everyone was being and them trying to markup stuff and actually had NO guarantee for anything yet. Complete smoke show until a real check can get cashed and your money is gone. Once people start seeing the car in the 6 figure range, they’ll get nervous. The dreams of driving this thing off the lot for $85,000 are just that. Dreams. Look at all the NSX “pre orders” how many of those came to be when the price went up to $120K from the original $89,800? And now in 2021 is over $158K? And this is from Acura which is owned by Honda and Infinity larger then lotus.
 

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No one has bought the car yet, they just have a magical “placeholder” to spec their car, and there will be plenty to buy as I bet more then 25% will not commit when the time comes to put real non refundable money down. This isn’t the Popeye Spicy chicken sandwich where idiots were waiting outside for days to get a sandwich. There will be plenty of them to go around once people realize the brand/car isn’t for them.
Depends. If the final specs reveal this to be as fast or faster than the Evora, there may not be that many cancelling. You're thinking of Lotus customers, this car is showing a much broader appeal, so there's no telling how many are in the queue to get one, very possibly many more already than are available. We just don't know yet, but I wouldn't want to gamble on there being slots available once the final specs are released. But that's just me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #194 ·
You seem to be focused on only one thing; faster. You also seem to recognize that this First Edition may not be for you, and that's perfectly okay too. If you don't want to put down a refundable deposit to hold your place in the line while we wait to get the final production specs, then that's also fine. You must also realize that if you don't already have a place in line by the time the final specs are revealed, and this First Edition IS in fact faster than the last Evora, you won't be able to get one. In a real sense this is a gamble right now, especially for the folks like you who are so focused on that one metric. I'm guessing the vast majority who've placed their deposit (like me) aren't that concerned about it. Either way it's good that Lotus has sold out it's first production run, because that means if this First Edition isn't the one you want, the Second Edition will have the funding to be that car.

This First Edition car is aimed at a much broader market than the small hardcore Lotus customer base. The car for that base is now most certainly already in the works.
Yes I’m focused on it being faster than the Gt that’s obvious and I have no problem admitting it. 👍 the 2nd run will be better for me👍
 

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I respectfully disagree; yeah they have, because what's going to happen three years from now depended heavily on what just happened at Goodwood. They sold out a limited-production run that's three times more than they've ever produced in a year. I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the video I linked to, because it wasn't the Lotus preview video. It's a really good behind-the-scenes backstory video of the people at Lotus, and what they're doing with this car and getting ready to produce it. Watch it. It shows some very interesting areas of the facility, and what they're doing to make this a great car, even down to the sounds the controls inside the car make.

And honestly, no insult, but you and several of your colleagues on this forum not being sold means nothing really. They needed to reach the marketplace way beyond you and several of your colleagues in order to survive and grow as a business. They've already done that; now they need to deliver.

As for me, this is already more exciting and interesting than anything being done or offered by any other manufacturer in a price range I can afford, so I'm assuming positive intent here and giving them the chance to make it happen.
No insult taken, we can agree to disagree and should feel free to do so. I'm happy you're jazzed about the car and are in the cue. However, I think you're placing a bit too much faith in the Goodwood effect and sales of limited-run sold out first edition Emiras on Lotus' success. For that matter, the Emira at 4,800 units+ per year won't save Lotus. In order to survive and grow they'll need something else and I'm sure you very well know what that is. Keeping brand loyalists is a wise strategy to employ in growing/migrating that base to the "other" model.

To add- I'm not in the disappointed category. I'm a cautious optimist waiting a bit for more information, e.g., reviews, pricing, etc.
 

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They didn’t sell out anything....it’s freaking refundable deposit. All speculative. Means nothing until the real money starts changing hands. And backing out isn’t an option anymore. Deposits show interest. Hell I had 2 of them and backed out on both when I saw how stupid everyone was being and them trying to markup stuff and actually had NO guarantee for anything yet. Complete smoke show until a real check can get cashed and your money is gone. Once people start seeing the car in the 6 figure range, they’ll get nervous. The dreams of driving this thing off the lot for $85,000 are just that. Dreams. Look at all the NSX “pre orders” how many of those came to be when the price went up to $120K from the original $89,800? And now in 2021 is over $158K? And this is from Acura which is owned by Honda and Infinity larger then lotus.
Well I hope you are wrong about the pricing. If it's $100k plus you will see a lot of people back out mainly because that price is not competitive with the competition they are targeting. It NEEDS to start in the $70k and not go over $90k for the first edition.
 

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Well I hope you are wrong about the pricing. If it's $100k plus you will see a lot of people back out mainly because that price is not competitive with the competition they are targeting. It NEEDS to start in the $70k and not go over $90k for the first edition.
The quote from Lotus of a starting price of under 60k pounds INCLUDES their VAT (value added tax) which I believe is 20%, so that won't apply to cars outside of the U.K. If your country has a VAT that would add to the price, but in the U.S. without the VAT, the starting price should be about $70k.
 

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If your gen 5 viper had the same or close to the same stock horsepower as your orange gen 4 and was advertised as slightly slower would that be as exciting? ( well besides the all forged engine) but performance wise. I doubt it. It’s 10 months away from launch but people are reserving them now. Now is the time to make me want it. Not finding out in 10 months its faster than they said it would be. Plus I’m strictly going by the Emira’s advertised 4.5 0 to 60 compared to the Evora Gt’s advertised 3.9 time. A perfect example is I haven’t reserved one yet and I was definitely gonna but I’m waiting now cause I’m not sure if it’s gonna be quick enough and I might wait until they make one that is. Which is fine if they offer that. However yes, if they don’t offer a quicker version and it’s not faster than the Evora gt. Then a used Evora gt works better for me. Doesn’t that sound bad. They have a whole new plant and model and some people might still want the old model. Wouldn’t it be easier just to make it quicker than the Gt to begin with? Everyone has there opinion I guess I was just voicing mine. I think it should be faster than the gt and I think we should know now before we order it that’s all.
Not to digress this thread but your Viper comment made me chuckle. The irony is that the Gen 5 Vipers actually make less rwhp than the Gen 4s. Gen 4s routinely make 550-560whp where's gen 5s are in the 530-545whp range (usually)--the gen 5s much steeper rear end ratio sap a bit of the wheel hp. Gen 4s were also very underrated by Dodge.

I understand that as a new Lotus customer I am not saddled with any previous baggage or expectations--which affects the lens existing owners view the Emira with. But you're projecting your personal need to be satisfied by a 0-60 claim onto the rest of the market place, and these people aren't waiting. My local Lotus dealer has 33 pre-orders, with more trickling in every week. This is a dealer that sold TWO Evoras last year. People are voting with their wallets, and even if half of them don't follow through this is shaping up to be a homerun for the brand.

I'd have to ask why people are so hung up on acceleration times? What manufacturers quote vs how the cars run real world can be vastly different. There is a huge difference in perception and reality, and when it comes to sales its really the former that drives buyers. I'll give a real-world example. I have an i8. I hear nothing but how slow they are, how expensive they are for the power, how I'd rather buy a used "xyz" that does this 0-60 yada yada. Have you ever heard someone say an R8 V10+ is dog-**** slow? (I've heard it plenty about the i8). So that's the perception. Here is the reality;

 

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The quote from Lotus of a starting price of under 60k pounds INCLUDES their VAT (value added tax) which I believe is 20%, so that won't apply to cars outside of the U.K. If your country has a VAT that would add to the price, but in the U.S. without the VAT, the starting price should be about $70k.
I'm in Canada, so we typically get a better deal than the US, so if it's $85k USD for the first edition I am hoping the base V6 manual without options will be closer to $75k USD.
 

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They didn’t sell out anything....it’s freaking refundable deposit. All speculative. Means nothing until the real money starts changing hands. And backing out isn’t an option anymore. Deposits show interest. Hell I had 2 of them and backed out on both when I saw how stupid everyone was being and them trying to markup stuff and actually had NO guarantee for anything yet. Complete smoke show until a real check can get cashed and your money is gone. Once people start seeing the car in the 6 figure range, they’ll get nervous. The dreams of driving this thing off the lot for $85,000 are just that. Dreams. Look at all the NSX “pre orders” how many of those came to be when the price went up to $120K from the original $89,800? And now in 2021 is over $158K? And this is from Acura which is owned by Honda and Infinity larger then lotus.
You're comparing applies and oranges. Evora starts at £88,675 whereas they announced that the Emira will start at £60,000. The price starts to add up when the buyer starts adding more features; similar to building a Porsche, where you can itemize every little thing. So it's all relative to when you build it. There will be people who will back out for their own reasons but potential buyers shouldn't be heavily surprised at the sudden price increase especially if they are the one who's clicking away on the mouse.

The NC NSX is a bad comparison since Honda had to tool everything for manufacturing. The NSX took an initial hit because it missed it's successor target that the NA1/NA2 NSX originally captured. The Emira is sharing the same engine and drivetrain from the Evora so there will be cross-shared components like what most car manufactures do to cut costs. Plus, they have a new factory with fully automated machines to help ramp up production. They want to sell cars, not worry about potentially closing doors.
 
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