First oil change?????
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I got mine changed at 1000 yesterday. Can I drive my car at 100% now? Chris (zvez), did you drive the C.O. demo at LoA? If so, what did you think about the LSS ride? I am considering retro-fitting it to my car but the UK distributor isn't answering me. Maybe they are too busy trying to keep up with Lotus orders? Charlie @ LoA service dept has a book (only 1 or I'd have it scanned and on EliseTalk) that has all sorts of performance goodies from Lotus (i.e. Brake lines, spoilers, exhausts, etc)...Next time you're by there, check it out! I should have made copies to put on the site.
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Dan,
As far as I recall, after the first after sales service (1000-1500 miles) you can use the engine to it's full potential.
Havent' driven the LOA demo yet.Haven't seen it either for that matter. If it rides even close to a Sport 190, I wouldn't want it for myself, I'm not THAT hardcore. I really don't plan any mods to the car as it stands, it's pretty much met/exceeded my expectations.
BTW, Dan, left you a PM, are you going to LOG in Bham on Sept10-13?
Chris
As far as I recall, after the first after sales service (1000-1500 miles) you can use the engine to it's full potential.
Havent' driven the LOA demo yet.Haven't seen it either for that matter. If it rides even close to a Sport 190, I wouldn't want it for myself, I'm not THAT hardcore. I really don't plan any mods to the car as it stands, it's pretty much met/exceeded my expectations.
BTW, Dan, left you a PM, are you going to LOG in Bham on Sept10-13?
Chris
I have the LSS and it's just what I wanted and expected. It isdefinitely stiffer than the non-sport and honestly if it were a daily driver I might not opt for it. If it's not a daily driver then I would definitely opt for it. BTW, I love the wheels/tires.
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Eyelise, Yes, those wheels are awesome!!! I noticed the front tires on LSS are 195's while non LSS are 175's. Are the front wheels wider as well? I know Lotus has done their homework but could I change my fronts to 195's to reduce the understeer. It's not as though I am complaining about the handling but I do plan on attending some track days and after driving LSS I can't help but want it. I'm really thinking about retrofitting the LSS onto my car but I'm not exactly in the mood to spend the money until my other car sells. Any ideas? Anyone got LSS and just can't stand it?
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I've got an idea! Chris, when we meetup and go to LoA, you distract them while I swap my suspension and wheels on the C.O. demo!!! It could work...
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I am going to skip LOG. I have a credit with the Panoz Racing School so I am going to drive it on a track I know. I'm a little hesitant to take it to a track I have never been on and I think I can learn it's limits better at Road Atl. Bham is also a 5.5 hour drive vs 1.4 hour drive to Road Atl. Maybe next time tho.
The stock wheel width = 5.5 Front / 7.5 Rear (in inches). LSS has a one inch wider front => 6.5 inches. So that would be 6.5/7.5 F/R. Diameters of 16/17 front rear are identical. The Elise can be run with smaller diameter wheels if you can deviate from stock - apparently the engineers wanted a 15/16 combo but marketing wanted the 16/17s. LSS adds 195 wide fronts versus the 175 stockers. Apparently the springs are about 10% stiffer - this is too small to affect the ride much. Any ride differences are likely attributable to the different tires and the stiffer damper valving rather than the springs.
The LSS also has the steering rack raised about 8 mm higher than stock. BTW this can be changed on a stock car by using the LSS shims which look like this:
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Two sheet metal shims are used, one on the left and one on the right hand side of the rack. The small hole on the shim is where it get's riveted to the chassis. When in place the shim is vertical - long dimension up/down with the small hole for the rivet lowest. This rivet approach is a way to affix the shim plate accurately with regard to the chassis. The two larger holes are positioned further from the rivet hole by 8 mm on LSS cars, so this would move the rack upward by that amount. The fasteners which retain the rack pass through those two holes - that is four bolts hold the rack in place, two pers side. The reason why the rack height is different here is to ensure that the bump steer characteristics are compatible with the other changed settings so that the very best handling can be achieved. (Bump steer = toe changes as the suspension moves up and down)
The LSS also has the steering rack raised about 8 mm higher than stock. BTW this can be changed on a stock car by using the LSS shims which look like this:
Two sheet metal shims are used, one on the left and one on the right hand side of the rack. The small hole on the shim is where it get's riveted to the chassis. When in place the shim is vertical - long dimension up/down with the small hole for the rivet lowest. This rivet approach is a way to affix the shim plate accurately with regard to the chassis. The two larger holes are positioned further from the rivet hole by 8 mm on LSS cars, so this would move the rack upward by that amount. The fasteners which retain the rack pass through those two holes - that is four bolts hold the rack in place, two pers side. The reason why the rack height is different here is to ensure that the bump steer characteristics are compatible with the other changed settings so that the very best handling can be achieved. (Bump steer = toe changes as the suspension moves up and down)
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Great info, thanks Stan. I emailed the company (can't for the life of me find their website again) about ordering the LSS suspension/wheels/tires/steer rack mod but they have not replied in 5 days! Any have any ideas on how/where to get the goods?
>>Great info, thanks Stan. I emailed the company (can't for the life of me find their website again) about ordering the LSS suspension/wheels/tires/steer rack mod but they have not replied in 5 days! Any have any ideas on how/where to get the goods?<<<
I'd assume that your dealer will be able to get the parts at some point if not now. It's not hard to change a car to LSS and back.
1) Wheel/tire swap
2) Damper/spring swap - just two bolts per corner.
3) Rack height shim change - change the present shim to the other one. It may even be possible to make them locally as we know the difference in the hole spacing = 8 mm per a vendor.
I'd assume that your dealer will be able to get the parts at some point if not now. It's not hard to change a car to LSS and back.
1) Wheel/tire swap
2) Damper/spring swap - just two bolts per corner.
3) Rack height shim change - change the present shim to the other one. It may even be possible to make them locally as we know the difference in the hole spacing = 8 mm per a vendor.
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Stan, I drove my non lss to the dealer the other day and hopped in their lss demo car and drove it about 7 miles. The roads I drove it on had some pavement patches and ripples in the roads. I could tell a little difference but it wasn't a big deal. N. Georgia has great roads so the 10% stiffer suspension is no big deal to me. If it was a daily driver and the roads are bad (i.e. new england states) I would not consider LSS.
>>>Stan, I drove my non lss to the dealer the other day and hopped in their lss demo car and drove it about 7 miles. The roads I drove it on had some pavement patches and ripples in the roads. I could tell a little difference but it wasn't a big deal. N. Georgia has great roads so the 10% stiffer suspension is no big deal to me. If it was a daily driver and the roads are bad (i.e. new england states) I would not consider LSS.<<<
Well IMO you can't really call the LSS suspension 10% stiffer. That is just the change in spring rates and 10% is barely noticeable at all in terms of the ride. It's the stiffness of the damper/shock valving, and wheel/tire related factors than dominate subjective ride quality if the springs are held near constant. It takes much stiffer springs than +10% to significantly affect the ride if nothing else is changed. On other cars I have tuned a 10% change in spring rate is most easily discerned by crawling under the car and checking the label on the spring for the rate.
Most likely the decent road ride quality is not too different between the two suspensions. The broken pavement / pot holed road ride quality is likely to vary much more though.
Well IMO you can't really call the LSS suspension 10% stiffer. That is just the change in spring rates and 10% is barely noticeable at all in terms of the ride. It's the stiffness of the damper/shock valving, and wheel/tire related factors than dominate subjective ride quality if the springs are held near constant. It takes much stiffer springs than +10% to significantly affect the ride if nothing else is changed. On other cars I have tuned a 10% change in spring rate is most easily discerned by crawling under the car and checking the label on the spring for the rate.
Most likely the decent road ride quality is not too different between the two suspensions. The broken pavement / pot holed road ride quality is likely to vary much more though.
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First, i ordered the stock suspension and I have not driven a LSS equipped car yet. But I will say the stock suspension is plenty firm for New England roads. Pretty similar to my E36 M3.
I really think the general perception when you say "sport suspension" is based on almost all production cars (i.e. a BMW) where the sport suspension generally sacrifices ride quality for better handling.
In my opinion the LSS designation is slightly mis-leading, I would call the LSS suspension "R compound tuned". It seems that is really what Lotus did with the sport suspension, optimized it for a different set of tires. The advantage is that R compound tires will clearly generate higher levels of grip than the stock set up. The downside is significantly reduced tire life and (as yet not confirmed) poor wet weather performance.
I for one opted out of the R compound tires based on 1) I will drive on the street and the limits are already very high, 2) nervous about wet weather performance and 3) really don't want to buy new tires every year. Ride comfort was of no concern and I think people should consider the tire life and wet weather performance when they make the LSS decision.
I really think the general perception when you say "sport suspension" is based on almost all production cars (i.e. a BMW) where the sport suspension generally sacrifices ride quality for better handling.
In my opinion the LSS designation is slightly mis-leading, I would call the LSS suspension "R compound tuned". It seems that is really what Lotus did with the sport suspension, optimized it for a different set of tires. The advantage is that R compound tires will clearly generate higher levels of grip than the stock set up. The downside is significantly reduced tire life and (as yet not confirmed) poor wet weather performance.
I for one opted out of the R compound tires based on 1) I will drive on the street and the limits are already very high, 2) nervous about wet weather performance and 3) really don't want to buy new tires every year. Ride comfort was of no concern and I think people should consider the tire life and wet weather performance when they make the LSS decision.
Well said Jay! Adding to your comments...R-compoud tires are not so hot as the temperature goes down, even if the conditions are dry. They are likely pretty squirley below about 40-50F.
The Yoko's that come with the LSS package will likely last maybe 6-8000 miles or more. A lot of this has to do with the toe and other alignment factors. So we'll know more by around Spring time next year.
The Yoko's that come with the LSS package will likely last maybe 6-8000 miles or more. A lot of this has to do with the toe and other alignment factors. So we'll know more by around Spring time next year.
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tire pressure
another option you might try is lowering the tire pressure in the front by 2 to 3 lbs. and see if that makes a difference. It might give the front enough more grip to counter some of the understeer. I know that in my Miata 2 lbs of tire pressure makes a huge difference in the handling and feel of the car. If the tire pressures are set at what the manufacturer calls for on some tires it feels like driving on ice. In F1 1/4 lbs makes a huge difference. I know that street tires are very different and that we hav low profile tires on the Elise, but what have you got to loose. You might be able to save your ride comfort and loose a lot of the understeer. I first started wondering about this when I saw the video by Top Gear on the internet and the thing understeered like a dog, power off going into a sweeping corner. If it works let me know. I'm going for a test drive this weekend in
San Luis Obispo, Smith Lotus. I'm number 35 and it still looks like a long wait. Been waiting six years. Had to go to England and rent one three years ago and visited the Lotus factroy while I was at it.
another option you might try is lowering the tire pressure in the front by 2 to 3 lbs. and see if that makes a difference. It might give the front enough more grip to counter some of the understeer. I know that in my Miata 2 lbs of tire pressure makes a huge difference in the handling and feel of the car. If the tire pressures are set at what the manufacturer calls for on some tires it feels like driving on ice. In F1 1/4 lbs makes a huge difference. I know that street tires are very different and that we hav low profile tires on the Elise, but what have you got to loose. You might be able to save your ride comfort and loose a lot of the understeer. I first started wondering about this when I saw the video by Top Gear on the internet and the thing understeered like a dog, power off going into a sweeping corner. If it works let me know. I'm going for a test drive this weekend in
San Luis Obispo, Smith Lotus. I'm number 35 and it still looks like a long wait. Been waiting six years. Had to go to England and rent one three years ago and visited the Lotus factroy while I was at it.
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