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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I was watching the History channel last night and thought of this.

What if Germany had beaten and occupied Britain and the Soviet Union and both Japan and Germany launched a full scale invasion on the continental United States.

1) Could the United States win a conventional war with Germany attacking on the East Coast and Japan attacking on the West Coast?

2) What about nuclear weapons on both sides? How would that have effected the outcome?
 

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I think it would have taken a long time before they could even think about invading us, so if they decided to attack us right away then:

1) We could definetly win if Germany and Japan decided to come to our coasts.

2) Scarry thought, hard to tell since the guy that was heading the nuclear program in Germany seemed to have delayed it on purpose, had England and Russia sucumb who knows if he would have changed his mind.

If they decided to wait.. we probably will be speaking german now.

Germany would have developed their long range bombers, they would have taken the tornado technollogy and improved on their jets.... Good thing we entered the war when we did.
 

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The US would have won. The German and Japanese would have been spread to thin. They could not have won a ground war in the US. They would have faced 30 million+ armed combatants. Unlike the England which had confiscated weapons after World War I as a result of a feared uprising over some issue. The US had a large population that owned and regualrly used guns. Also the used of dynamite was common on farms.

As for an air war. The population density of the US was and is much lower than Europe. The air raids would have been much less effective.

Depending on the timing of the attack (what year) the strategy would have been different. If it were after our build up in the Pacific, the devasation of Japn woul dhave been horrific. We institued fire bombing of Tokyo that was effective but had high civillian losses. I believe it would have been at least as effective as the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki because we had far more capability to deliver and produce them.

We had immense natural resources that neither Germany or Japan possessed. The casualyies would have been high but ultimately the US would have prevailed. Had they attacked the continental US we would not likely have rolled out the Mashall Plan, instead we would rebuilt our steel and manufacturing capabilty anew and would still be dominating the steel industry because we would not have saddled with turn of the century facilities that no one felt compelled to refit.

The China and India would be fearsome countries if they develop modern manufacturing and allow their populace to own things. People who defend their own property defend it more aggressively than those that defend the land of their masters.

Greg
 

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Allan Gibbs said:

What if Germany had beated and occupied Britain and the Soviet Union and both Japan and Germany launched a full scale invasion on the continental United States.

Well, we might be better educated....???? :rolleyes: :D
 

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The Germans were the only ones with the technology to produce cross-atlantic weaponary. The only reason they didn't make them was because we kept blowing them up before they were finished.

We barely won the war as it was. With England out of the picture ... well .. Ich bin ein San Diegan :)
 

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The Brits would have slowly killed them off through guerrilla warfare! No way would the people I know in the UK roll over like some other countries did in WWII. Can you imagine the difficulty of maintaining control over the UK, mainland Europe, North Africa, and Russia? A little resistance in all of the locations would have drained Germany relatively quickly. I'm not sure Hitler had any better plan once Europe, Russia and the UK were conquered than Bush did with Iraq. It's like a saying a friend of mine has he was like a dog chasing a car who gets his teeth locked on the bumper, now what?
 

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Everyone has played the game RISK right?

Stretched thin... it gets very expensive and difficult to maintain supply lines and troop forces and ground battles in UK and US would have been fierce.
 

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James A said:
The Brits would have slowly killed them off through guerrilla warfare! No way would the people I know in the UK roll over like some other countries did in WWII. Can you imagine the difficulty of maintaining control over the UK, mainland Europe, North Africa, and Russia? A little resistance in all of the locations would have drained Germany relatively quickly. I'm not sure Hitler had any better plan once Europe, Russia and the UK were conquered than Bush did with Iraq. It's like a saying a friend of mine has he was like a dog chasing a car who gets his teeth locked on the bumper, now what?
Thats why we won. We refused to roll over. For the most part of the war, we we're being smashed left and right. Most others would, and did, roll over. Not us. Germany would have had to exterminate every last one of us.

Germany on the other hand was a country acting out of fear of its regime.

Hitler never wanted to conquer England. He wanted to take back the land that Germany had lost during WWI.

In fact, England was offered the opportunity to join Germany at the begining of the war.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I remember hearing that one of Hitler's mistakes was to attack the Soviet Union prior to taking England. Had he taken England and then turned his attention to the Soviet Union, the war in Europe may have ended differently.

If England and the Soviet Union fell, I think it would have had a chilling effect on the United States and Canada as we would know we would be next. Because of that I think the U.S. war machine would run into hyper overdrive. Factories and key centers would relocate to the mid-part of the U.S. and larger number of people would be called into the draft. In short, we would have gone into "survival" mode as England had done during the blitz.

To strike the U.S. mainland, I think the Axis powers would first need to establish strong holds in either Canada or South America. I think we would have seen stronger alliances and participation with Canada and Mexico to preserve the North American continent. It truly would have been a world wide war.

Incidentally, there was a documentary on the history channel about Japan's invasion of some island in Alaska. The U.S. drove them out although it was a costly victory. However, I think the U.S. was fully aware of what would happen if the Axis could target the North American continent.

The one variable I'm not sure about are atomic bombs. How would the U.S., who would have superior machines and men, deal with constant atomic bombs attacks?
 

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The US.

Why:

1. Natural Resources - we had tons, and a well developed infrastructure for getting at them.

2. Well developed industrial base that hasn't been bombed to hell and back.

3. Unified Nation with strong alliances. Both G and J would have had to force other nations to gather and build their weapons & such. I'm pretty sure that the non Axis workers would not have been too productive. We had a strongly unified nation with many alliances around the world. These alliances allowed for robust economic activies - e.g. we sold them arms due to their fear of the Axis.

4. Our nation is way too big for effective bombing at the time. Our industrial centers were well inside the US, not on our coasts. This was not true of Japan - easy to bomb any city. And Germany didn't have nor would have for a long time the tech to send a plane from England (assuming a successful invasion) to any major indutrial city in the US.

The best way to for Germany would be to work through Greenland and into Canada. Build Air and land bases and start bombing runs against our industries. That would mean heavily extending their naval supply lines (which they haven't done before - Africa doesn't really count, it was close to Italy). I doubt they would have succeded for more than a short time.


Wow - I really am a dork. :(
 

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Allan Gibbs said:
I was watching the History channel last night and thought of this.

What if Germany had beaten and occupied Britain and the Soviet Union and both Japan and Germany launched a full scale invasion on the continental United States.

1) Could the United States win a conventional war with Germany attacking on the East Coast and Japan attacking on the West Coast?

2) What about nuclear weapons on both sides? How would that have effected the outcome?

I cant speak about the nuclear weapons aspect of it cause Im too stupid, but Im pretty sure if the Germans/Japanese defeated the United States in WWII GM, Chevy and Ford wouldnt be the perrenial POS co's that they are...our cars would be reliable and solid...:D :D :D
 
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