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Discussion Starter #1
From dash cam of friends car. Go to 3:50 in the video to see the incident. You can also see after the incident that the Cayenne took off.

Bmw vs curb. - YouTube

IMO it's definitely the Cayenne's fault. The cop called to the scene said that since he turned left into the far right lane that it is his fault instead of the Cayenne and that he should give him a citation. I disagree. What I see from the vid is they travel for 4-5 seconds AFTER turning, so even if he turned into the correct lane, that would have give him enough time to get in the right side lane to pass if he wanted to. It happened at least 100 feet past the turn and light so I feel like the turn had nothing to do with it. Opinions?
 

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From dash cam of friends car. Go to 3:50 in the video to see the incident. You can also see after the incident that the Cayenne took off.

Bmw vs curb. - YouTube

IMO it's definitely the Cayenne's fault. The cop called to the scene said that since he turned left into the far right lane that it is his fault instead of the Cayenne and that he should give him a citation. I disagree. What I see from the vid is they travel for 4-5 seconds AFTER turning, so even if he turned into the correct lane, that would have give him enough time to get in the right side lane to pass if he wanted to. It happened at least 100 feet past the turn and light so I feel like the turn had nothing to do with it. Opinions?
If the cop was just going by a description, I can see how he might have concluded what he did. I doubt he would have made the same conclusion had he seen the video.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
He showed both the cop, and the other driver the video and they both said it was his fault for the turn. The cop wouldn't release the other drivers name, tag, or insurance info.
 

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I just want my 3 minutes and 50 seconds back!


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app
 

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If there was an accident report generated, just get it. Info will be on it.
 

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The video is dated 5 yrs ago. Why are we talking about this?
 

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That's definitely question A. Question B, did the cop note the skid marks or hear the squeal on the audio just before the alleged incident? Perhaps trying to race up along the right side of the Porsche was not helpful in determining blame. And, having a dash cam probably made him think the driver was looking for trouble already.
 

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Random musings:

- Editing is your friend. That video could have been edited to about 11 seconds.

- What they heck did I just watch?

- A Cayenne with a spare on back?

- Your BMW did a bad thing by turning left and going in the right lane. You need to establish in the left lane first, then change lanes.

- The Cayenne guy clearly did a bad thing by changing lanes to avoid the left turner. He didn't signal and he cut you off. He then clearly speed as he pulled away.

So, from a legal standpoint, I don't know who is 'guilty'? But what ultimately happened? A bit of curb wheel rub?

And the video cuts out - was there a brawl? That's what I wanna see, not some dude in his garage.

Oh, an it was 5 years ago. Both owners probably don't even own the cars anymore.
 

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in CA at least, there is no law that says you "need to establish in the left lane" after turning left.

California Driver Handbook - Turns

(see the description on how to complete turns).

CA Vehicle Code section 21801 doesn't say anything about having to "establish" in the left lane:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/dhttp://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/turns.htm11/vc21801.htm

I speak for my state only of course, but you're friend didn't break any actual law by turning left and then taking the right hand lane.

Having said that, and watching the video, it looks like your friend could have easily avoided this accident by yielding his right of way to the Cayenne. It looks to me like he saw the Cayenne was going to take his right hand lane to avoid the stopped SUV in the left lane. Basically, your buddy squeezed the space away from the Cayenne by accelerating to close off the gap only to get hit when the Cayenne driver didn't care for this attempt by the car to close this gap (either that or he just didn't see the car).

So the Cayenne is at fault in my book, but your buddy could have avoided this by using some discretion. Sometimes it's just better to give up your right of way to an idiot/aggressive driver.
 

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Rear-mounted spare tire carrier was a pretty expensive option. I had a 2004 Turbo, which was not cheap, but like every Porsche, if you check every single box on a new CT, you can spend about $190k. I didn't see the rear-mounted spare carrier.
 

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Both cars were well out of the turn and that should not be a consideration. There was enough linear distance traveled to eliminate that as a factor. IF there was contact between cars, and I did not see any evidence of that, the Cayenne was guilty of hit and run. There is an imbiguity about failure to yield right of way. The brake lock up right before adds to the inability about which car is guilty of failure to yield right of way. The question now is" was there contact between cars? If so hit ad run would change liability to the other guy. If it was just pushing you into the curb he has a bias that no contact was made between vehicles therefore no need to stop. His bias would be near miss avoided. This is a situation where legal action would cost almost as much as a new car to fight in legal fees with a low chance of recovering and monetary damages. The best thing here is to learn to yield to the other guy, even when you have the right of way, to avoid getting hit by idiots on the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If there was an accident report generated, just get it. Info will be on it.
Cop said it was a minor 1 car incident, so it wasn't needed.

The video is dated 5 yrs ago. Why are we talking about this?
He never set the date/time on the cam.

And, having a dash cam probably made him think the driver was looking for trouble already.
I have a dash cam and I'm not looking for trouble.

Random musings:

- Editing is your friend. That video could have been edited to about 11 seconds.

Oh, an it was 5 years ago. Both owners probably don't even own the cars anymore.
Yes, it should have been edited...hence why I said fast forward to the incident.

Both cars were well out of the turn and that should not be a consideration. There was enough linear distance traveled to eliminate that as a factor.
Exactly!

IF there was contact between cars, and I did not see any evidence of that, the Cayenne was guilty of hit and run. There is an imbiguity about failure to yield right of way. The brake lock up right before adds to the inability about which car is guilty of failure to yield right of way. The question now is" was there contact between cars? If so hit ad run would change liability to the other guy. If it was just pushing you into the curb he has a bias that no contact was made between vehicles therefore no need to stop. His bias would be near miss avoided. This is a situation where legal action would cost almost as much as a new car to fight in legal fees with a low chance of recovering and monetary damages. The best thing here is to learn to yield to the other guy, even when you have the right of way, to avoid getting hit by idiots on the road.
There was no contact, although if it was me, I would have let him hit me.
 

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The video is dated 5 yrs ago. Why are we talking about this?
Damn good question - it was published to Youtube recently but the stamp on the video is clearly extremely old. That being said clearly it was the Cayenne's fault - while the BMW definitely turned into the wrong lane that was done and over a good 4 seconds before he got run off the road. I don't see how it couldn't be the Cayenne's fault.
 

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Unfortunately this is one of those instances where your insurance company would not spend the money to go after the other guy. I went through this. A 19 year old ran a red light and I was on my Harley. He lied his a$$ off and said his light was green. I couldnot talk to anyone at the scene as they were fighting to keep me alive. In fact they brought me back twice. When time for trial no witness info had been taken by the cop at the scene. It was my word against his. After about $60,000.00 in expense there was insufficient evidence of who had the green light. I just had my 19th major surgery 3 weeks ago. Anyway, my point is that our legal system SUCKS!!! The legal system is NOT based on evidence but on whose attorney can put on the biggest dog and pony show to get as much evidence deleted from the facts of the case so not to be included in testimony and to throw in as much razzle dazzle to lend doubt to the fact, no matter how obscure. Even with the video there is enough ambiguity there to have an undecided outcome as stated in my earlier post. The wrong date in itself is enogh to deem it inadmissible. OK, rant over.
 

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I will add that I had a situation exactly like that where a truck suddenly pulled into my line and I swerved right to avoid it. I had a telephone pole dead center; totaled the car. I was told by the cop that I should have just let him hit me then it would be his fault... Since he did not hit me, it was on me.
 

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I was told by the cop that I should have just let him hit me then it would be his fault... Since he did not hit me, it was on me.
Yup.

If you run off the road without any contact between vehicles, it is a single vehicle incident caused by your failure to control.
 

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so you guys are saying the moral of this story is:
if you have right of way, the legal system prefers that you risk someone's life rather than try to avoid it!!!
i'm sure over 70% of the time, the guy at fault would probably the be more likely to get injured (assuming it is car vs car)!

Thanks for the lesson y'all
 

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I had a motorcycle wreck on a harley too. The defense threw up every red herring they could. They even stated If I had only slowed down with a braking force of 1.1Gs (on a harley with hard cruising tires, not track tires), I could have avoided the accident by stopping 6 inches short of impact (assuming a 200ms reaction time at night). In short, they ended up trying to blame me, for a car which turned left in front of me. Accident forensic experts are the court system's professional liers, and are protected under the law from being charged with perjury (they are only offering an "opinion"). I ended up recovering about 25% of my losses.
 

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Yup.

If you run off the road without any contact between vehicles, it is a single vehicle incident caused by your failure to control.
While this stupidity may keep the guy from getting charged and fined for wreckless driving, it does not protect him in a courtroom.:no:

The video clearly shows he is at fault and nothing prevents you from suing him to get reimbursed for the repairs. Any judge who watches this video will rule in your favor, unless he is prejudice in some unpredictable manner (assuming you don't show up in court wearing a "F*ck the Law" T-Shirt).
 
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